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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#11

Post by Drakim »

abtinf wrote: post #7
Drakim wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PUBLIC RELATIONS PERSON: You don't understand, they aren't actively looking at the data so it's not spying. It's just being archived at our central servers for important future use, and any access is subject to warrants (for now). We are working with Google to bring this important life-saving terrorist-defeating child porn-detecting feature to Android. Think of the Children! (I really hope it only sends out the infor…

Why shouldn’t it be archived for future use?

Why shouldn't all your traffic, location data, and thoughts be archived for future use?

Maybe in 30 years we figure out you are one of the undesirables of society, and we'll have an easy time getting rid of you and your kind. It's a great boon for society to preserve all data.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#12

Post by abtinf »

Drakim wrote: post #11
abtinf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn’t it be archived for future use?

Why shouldn't all your traffic, location data, and thoughts be archived for future use? Maybe in 30 years we figure out you are one of the undesirables of society, and we'll have an easy time getting rid of you and your kind. It's a great boon for society to preserve all data.

That is not the context of this news.

The context here is recording pertinent information when a person chooses to request emergency law enforcement, medical, and fire services.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #2

Good for Apple for helping to save lives. As someone who's had to wait for an ambulance while someone is dying I understand how horrible that wait is and how desperately you want them to get to you as quickly as possible. The second part of this however is to ensure it's not open to abuse (by criminals or the government) for non emergency calls.

I’d like to see Apple help subsidize the cost of upgrading the software required in rural emergency call centers if it’s required to interoperate with this new feature (perhaps coming out of their corporate social responsibility budget).

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#14

Post by emptybits »

Will it be possible to make an anonymous 911 call?

There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#15

Post by walterbell »

abtinf wrote: post #9
walterbell wrote: post #4

For anyone with the iOS12 beta, is there an opt-out for this system service in the Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services list? What happens if "Location Services" has been disabled by MDM policy, or was never enabled since the device was setup? On a new iOS11 device, if you decline to enable Location Services during setup, it stays disabled. Once enabled, it can no longer be disabled, and the system service…

In what circumstances would you want to contact 911 but not reveal your location?

The purpose of opt-out is:

  device owner decides when to opt-out
  device owner does not need to explain why
Defaults serve common requirements. Opt-out serves everything else. At the scale of billions of devices, there can be millions of "edge cases" which need to opt-out of defaults, for contextual and time-variable reasons.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#16

Post by Spooky23 »

craftyguy wrote: post #3

> The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 911 calling centers will be able to see the data during the call, and none of it can be used for non-emergency purposes, according to Apple. How long until this information is available to law enforcement?

Law enforcement already can get this data from carriers.

This allows first responders to get the information from people calling 911. That’s a good thing!

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#17

Post by unethical_ban »

craftyguy wrote: post #3

> The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 911 calling centers will be able to see the data during the call, and none of it can be used for non-emergency purposes, according to Apple. How long until this information is available to law enforcement?

In order of increasing sophistication of argument:

- Your phone sends your broad location to your provider constantly, and your precise location (when enabled) to tons of applications. If you are worried about LEO having your location, 911 services is not the first battleground I would choose.

- There could be a legal argument, I assume, that calling 911 acts as consent of the precise tracking of location for the purposes of emergency response, while blanket collection without a warrant would be a violation of civil liberties.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#18

Post by rwmj »

I had to make a 999 call a few years back because I saw a woman faint and bang her head on a concrete pavement. Although I was in the local area which I know very well, it was really difficult - when put on the spot in an emergency - to describe my exact location.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#19

Post by bitL »

emptybits wrote: post #14

Will it be possible to make an anonymous 911 call? There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.

Get one of those credit card-sized phones like AIEK just for 911? They should be able to call 911 even without SIM card.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#20

Post by vxNsr »

abtinf wrote: post #9
walterbell wrote: post #4

For anyone with the iOS12 beta, is there an opt-out for this system service in the Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services list? What happens if "Location Services" has been disabled by MDM policy, or was never enabled since the device was setup? On a new iOS11 device, if you decline to enable Location Services during setup, it stays disabled. Once enabled, it can no longer be disabled, and the system service…

In what circumstances would you want to contact 911 but not reveal your location?

Maybe you just don't want your location ever being sent to a gov agency no matter your predicament.
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