Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#221

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #209

scarface74 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All purchased digital music has been DRM free for a decade. Netflix says we watched about 60 hours last month and my son watched 5 seasons of "Everybody Hates Chris" on Hulu - combined price of both services was $23 a month. How much would that cost to buy?

> How much would that cost to buy? Price usually depends on many factors of the market. But if it's not available at all, it doesn't matter how much you would be willing to pay - you can't buy it, period. > All purchased digital music has been DRM free for a decade. So if music can be sold DRM-free in parallel to renting services, what problem is there with video that prevents it?

Commercial video for the most part has always been copy protected even in the analog days with Macrovision.

From a historical reason, the only reason we have DRM free music sells is because of Apple. In 2008, the music industry was trying to pressure Apple into licensing its DRM scheme so that competitors could sell music compatible with iPods. Steve Jobs countered saying that if the music industry would sell all of their music DRM free, there would be cross platform compatibility [1]. The movie industry didn’t make the same mistake the music industry did. They allowed multiple companies to buy and rent movies so Apple wouldn’t have the same power they had over music over movies.

As far as the cost to buy movies, you don’t have to guess. Most popular movies cost $14.99 to own and the less popular movies are $9.99.

The box set for “Everybody Hates Chris” is $110.00 on Amazon. So to buy all of the content we watched between Hulu and Netflix would be at least $700 - as opposed to $24.

[1] Thoughts on Music (http://macdailynews.com/2007/02/06/apple_ceo_steve_jobs_post...)

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#222

Post by mikec3010 » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #49

sosborn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Off to a torrent site or asking around to see if someone has rips or a box set. The other option is to just not watch it.

The down voting you’re getting is emblematic of the entitlement mentality among tech folks when it comes to content. There is no right to consume entertainment someone else produced for free. If you don’t like the terms on which they’re selling the fruits of their labor, don’t buy it.

By offering their product to me, they implicitly agreed to my terms of service which gives me the express right to use a torrenting service. It also waives their right to sue and requires binding arbitration with an arbiter of my choosing.

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#223

Post by yebyen » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #54

yebyen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about HBO Go, I don't know how you gauge success, but if it's subscriber numbers I would take that with a grain of salt. I am a Comcast subscriber, and like many Comcast subscribers I'm sure, I have one of their boxes in my house, with the most basic Cable TV package, because if I don't take it my cost goes up (I mean the overall price of the monthly billed amount from Comcast/Xfinity). We get crapp…

> I am a Comcast subscriber, and like many Comcast subscribers I'm sure, I have one of their boxes in my house, with the most basic Cable TV package, because if I don't take it my cost goes up (I mean the overall price of the monthly billed amount from Comcast/Xfinity) This seems to vary region to region. Where I am (western Washington, west of Seattle) all the internet-only packages are cheaper than all the internet…

The TV deal is a promotional pricing structure, I have found that you can get them to offer you a new promotional rate if you threaten to send their hardware back and downgrade your service to Internet-only. (Again this may vary from region to region, I am in the midwest/Indiana in case it matters.)

These threats are credible when they know you have the crappiest TV service they offer and you probably aren't even using it but 30 minutes a day when Jeopardy comes on, but for some reason the sales reps seem to be pretty heavily incentivized to make sure you have some kind of TV service, even if you don't get any addons bundled with it. (Probably getting a kickback from the government, that's how they get their listening devices into your living room... /s)

I've declined as many services as I can otherwise, I don't have DVR service, HD channels (I get about 10 channels, all SD), extra super-premium internet package (mine claims up to 150Mbit, while it is not the lowest they offer, it's also not the highest...) I don't get a paper bill in the mail, or manual payments for billing (all of those things also cost ~$10 extra each); still my cable internet service is good, and it does come with HBO as I mentioned.

(I'm pretty sure it's standard def HBO over the wire, and that's another good reason to register for and use the bundled HBO Go service at least once...)

I think that $8/mo broadcast TV fee is the only one you mentioned that I can actually identify on my bill. And as I've had it explained to me, I would not be able to qualify for any promotional pricing after my first year of service without that.

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#224

Post by pwinnski » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:39 PM UTC

bookbinder wrote: post #150

MisterTea wrote: post #3

These companies are obsessed with fragmenting the market for the sake of owning content from production to delivery. I have bad news for them: you're going to lose. People don't want to go back to paying $100/month for a dozen streaming "channels" with one or two good shows and a the same crap the rest of the other "channels" have. We want an on-demand nexus. A single hub. Just the other day I had the urge to watch g…

People don't want to pay $100 a month for cable TV either, but they did it anyway (for decades) and continue to do so. Now we're being asked to buy a bunch of streaming services and we'll bitch and moan, but ultimately we'll pay because every major platform will have at least one show that justifies their existence. I associate CBS with bland procedural crime dramas and awful three-camera sitcoms. CBS All Access woul…

> People don't want to pay $100 a month for cable TV either, but they did it anyway (for decades)...

In the absence of alternatives, it seemed like what entertainment cost. The alternatives for free or cheap are enough that many, many, many people are opting out.

> ...and continue to do so.

Evidence[0] suggests otherwise.

Leaving evidence aside, I think that each service will likely have something to attract some number of subscribers, yes. Amazon is doing LotR, Disney wants a piece, CBS has Star Trek, etc. I don't think it follows that a large number of people are going to subscribe to more than one or two on an ongoing basis. People subscribe to CBS All-Access for one month, perhaps a trial month, and binge all of ST:D, then cancel. They already have a subscription to Amazon Prime for non-TV reasons. Maybe they share subscriptions with friends, or maybe they turn to piracy, or maybe they just shrug and go back to watching Netflix and YouTube, which is enough. Most people never had all the available channels, including premium channels, anyway. Going without a show or two isn't a problem for most people when the marginal cost is so high.

[0] https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/cord-cutting-2017-high-cos...

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#225

Post by yebyen » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

nobleach wrote: post #142

yebyen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about HBO Go, I don't know how you gauge success, but if it's subscriber numbers I would take that with a grain of salt. I am a Comcast subscriber, and like many Comcast subscribers I'm sure, I have one of their boxes in my house, with the most basic Cable TV package, because if I don't take it my cost goes up (I mean the overall price of the monthly billed amount from Comcast/Xfinity). We get crapp…

Those SD letter boxed locals are Comcast actively degrading the signal, so they can sell the HD version (which is how they receive it) at an inflated price. I sometimes think this might be illegal to tamper with a broadcast signal to degrade it on purpose.

Amen! I was told it would cost me another $10/mo to add HD service, and that I probably wouldn't get any new channels. And I will still be dealing with commercials.

No thanks. It doesn't cost you anything extra to allow me to decrypt the commercials. I'll take my chances with OTA signals if I'm still going to be stuck watching commercials.

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#226

Post by inanutshellus » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #219

With ISPs becoming content companies, and with Net Neutrality dead they can charge companies like Netflix higher data rates.... Seems like Netflix needs to buy an ISP.

... or stop allowing these mega-mega-mega-mega mergers :)

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#227

Post by shmerl » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #221

shmerl wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much would that cost to buy? Price usually depends on many factors of the market. But if it's not available at all, it doesn't matter how much you would be willing to pay - you can't buy it, period. > All purchased digital music has been DRM free for a decade. So if music can be sold DRM-free in parallel to renting services, what problem is there with video that prevents it?

Commercial video for the most part has always been copy protected even in the analog days with Macrovision. From a historical reason, the only reason we have DRM free music sells is because of Apple. In 2008, the music industry was trying to pressure Apple into licensing its DRM scheme so that competitors could sell music compatible with iPods. Steve Jobs countered saying that if the music industry would sell all of…

We are talking about buying DRM-free digital films. Who sells them now at scale? I doubt you can draw pricing parallels with sales of physical legacy media (optical disks).

And there is no valid reason for them lacking, all reasons are invalid and crooked. The last major push for that was from GOG, and it didn't go far because of backwards thinking lawyers:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree...

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#228

Post by virusduck » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

lgregg wrote: post #92

MisterTea wrote: post #3

These companies are obsessed with fragmenting the market for the sake of owning content from production to delivery. I have bad news for them: you're going to lose. People don't want to go back to paying $100/month for a dozen streaming "channels" with one or two good shows and a the same crap the rest of the other "channels" have. We want an on-demand nexus. A single hub. Just the other day I had the urge to watch g…

> We want an on-demand nexus. A single hub. That is close to existing, it'd be nice if the top players agreed to open their APIs so you could integrate it into a unified TV external like Chromecast or Firestick. Or, to go further, a unified platform that can process subscriptions and PPV across each library. > $100/month for a dozen streaming "channels" with one or two good shows and a the same crap the rest of the o…

$12/mo on modem rental??!! A cable modem only costs like $30--I can't believe that's what they're charging for rental.

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#229

Post by typetehcodez » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #188

makecheck wrote: post #61

Companies focus on buying content while ignoring the quality of the broadcast experience. I am tired of competitors that skimp on this. Netflix doesn’t shove ads in your face, works on every platform and almost never has mysterious transmission failures. And now they have excellent content too. They have figured out so much more than some of the last-century providers.

Amazon prime shows ads for other prime shows occasionally and it just pisses me off. I'm seeing less of them, so maybe they got the message. Prime is also very much a superficial copy of the Netflix interface.

This reason alone (the ads to other Prime shows) is why I cancelled my Prime subscription and also was the final nail in the coffin on why I stopped using amazon all together. Amazon started to piss me off when they turned my amazon kindle, and the later my amazon app on my android phone into advertisement space.

Re: Netflix Is Why AT&T bought Time Warner, and Comcast and Disney want Fox

#230

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #221

shmerl wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much would that cost to buy? Price usually depends on many factors of the market. But if it's not available at all, it doesn't matter how much you would be willing to pay - you can't buy it, period. > All purchased digital music has been DRM free for a decade. So if music can be sold DRM-free in parallel to renting services, what problem is there with video that prevents it?

Commercial video for the most part has always been copy protected even in the analog days with Macrovision. From a historical reason, the only reason we have DRM free music sells is because of Apple. In 2008, the music industry was trying to pressure Apple into licensing its DRM scheme so that competitors could sell music compatible with iPods. Steve Jobs countered saying that if the music industry would sell all of…

We are talking about buying DRM-free digital films. Who sells them now at scale? I doubt you can draw pricing parallels with sales of physical legacy media (optical disks).

Why do you think that making them DRM free would cost less? Today the cost of digital movies is between $9.99 and $14.99 and the cost of a season of Everybody Hates Chris is $20 on iTunes.