last time I was in Macedonia I saw a man pulling a big plough by hand. No horse or tractor.
Unrelated, I know.
Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
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Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#12"...ending...": in fact, it has just begun.. There's a long way until this 'agreement' becomes a 'reality' (referendum and constitutional changes in FYROM and then vote in both parliaments). But most importantly the will of the people has been ignored so only the near future will show what will actually happen. For a historical reference about this issue and the Greek identity of Macedonia: https://history.stackexcha…
Which will of which people was ignored?
That will: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42937889
And before you speak again about nationalists, etc read a bit about Mikis Theodorakis who was the main speaker addressing the crowd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikis_Theodorakis
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#13So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?
Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the name for it's own northern province.
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#14Isn't it ironic that things like Mickey Mouse are super copyrighted that even if you name your son that you will get in trouble. On the other hand things like historical references(Macedonia) are up for grabs by anyone and they even attract supporters of the type "self naming is a right"..
"On the other hand things like historical references(Macedonia) are up for grabs by anyone and they even attract supporters of the type "self naming is a right".."
absolutely agree... unfortunately common sense is extinct nowadays
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#15So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?
The conflict is about name, not area. Macedonia wants into EU, Greece doesn't agree as long as Macedonia is called Macedonia.
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#16Isn't it ironic that things like Mickey Mouse are super copyrighted that even if you name your son that you will get in trouble. On the other hand things like historical references(Macedonia) are up for grabs by anyone and they even attract supporters of the type "self naming is a right"..
Disney hasn't had a "regime change", and the regime question was quite clear at the time Mickey was invented.
Macedonia (Kingdom? Empire? Ancient ethnicity?/dialect?/polity?) had lots of regime changes. We can't even be sure that the Greeks, at the time of Philip & Alexander considered Macedonia to be "Greece." You could argue either way. You could also argue that half the world is the "real" Macedonia. Bagdad has a decent claim.
I can see how Greece sees it, that naming may lead to territorial claims. That aside, Names are just names. I don't think this name is a crime against logic/history.
This is like insisting that what gay "really" means is happy. It's neither true or false statement. It's nonsensical.
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#17So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?
Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the name for it's own northern province.
Greece's logic in disapproving of the name Macedonia is that they fear that Macedonia (the republic) could some day claim the Greek province of Macedonia. By that logic, so should Luxembourg (the grand duchy) be able to claim the Belgian province of the same name.
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#18So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?
Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the name for it's own northern province.
Greece didn't claim anything. Macedonia has been a Greek region for thousands of years. The so-called 'macdonia' state and the whole naming dispute emerged out of nowhere after WWII.
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which will of which people was ignored?
That will: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42937889 And before you speak again about nationalists, etc read a bit about Mikis Theodorakis who was the main speaker addressing the crowd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikis_Theodorakis
So on both sides, the people that are unhappy would have wanted the other side to make more concessions?
Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the name for it's own northern province.
Greece's logic in disapproving of the name Macedonia is that they fear that Macedonia (the republic) could some day claim the Greek province of Macedonia. By that logic, so should Luxembourg (the grand duchy) be able to claim the Belgian province of the same name.
There's a difference though, in that the province of Luxembourg was indeed a part of Luxembourg (the country) not even 200 years ago. So it would be a much more legitimate claim.