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Hire Family People

37signals.com

101–110 of 157 posts

Re: Hire Family People

#101
post #39

Those 37signals people are very, very arrogant. I don't like it. I disagree on every post they have just by reading the title.

So someone is arrogant when you don't agree with them? And you don't even have to know what they're saying to make that call, you just have to read a three-word summary? What a unique path to expanding your horizon.

No, man. Someone is arrogant because his attitude seems to say "I know better than you, pretty much all of the time."

Re: Hire Family People

#102
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Graham's analogy is more apt that he realizes. Here's where it takes us: Yes, the majority of breakout chains/startups are started as chains/startups. But, plenty of breakout businesses aren't built to scale out fast. Starbucks didn't break out for over a decade. Microsoft didn't get the DOS contract until '81. Meanwhile, lots of small businesses are small deliberately. Thomas Keller isn't franchising Per Se.…

Celebrity chef restaurants are not really businesses - they are more like old-school arts patronages. They are started with funding by rich finance guys who are looking for a hobby project to make themselves feel cooler. The only people who go there are also uber rich finance guys, other people in the celebrity class, and the occasional not-as-rich foodie. As soon as the rich people and celebrities get bored with the…

Not that I'm an expert on the celebrity chef restaurant business or anything, but I can name one example where this is at least partly true: Ferran Adria's El Bulli (voted best restaurant in the world a few years ago) actually operates at a loss. Adria supplements his income by putting out books and by selling some of the more unusual ingredients he uses.

(edit: typo)

Re: Hire Family People

#103
post #54

I'll admit, DHH coming into Hacker News is a breath of fresh air, even if a few of the 20-somethings here (including myself) can sniff out the psuedo-defeatist , "statistically its not possible" scent it is tinged with. I think, on the whole of things, pg isn't out to attract the type of people that want to start the types of business DHH is talking about. I think pg is set out to do the same thing VC's do (invest in…

Maybe I'm in the minority. I think DHH's arrival here is a big gust of foul air.

Suddenly the arguments are getting out of control, and pg's participating. Nitpicky, negative, petty debates.

I've read every DHH post that's appeared here in the past days, and every one of them comes off like the work of a sophomoric contrarian who believes that the minor success he's had entitles him to tell the world how to think.

I like this place better when positive, hopeful people are having conversations.

This air just stinks.

Re: Hire Family People

#104
post #18
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe he has decided to take the opposite position to pg on every point about how to start a business and see how well he can argue it. Which is a healthy thing for Hacker News, I think, getting other perspectives.

Actually there wasn't anything in DHH's talk that I really disagreed with, except the use of the word "startup" for the kind of company he was describing. There's already a word for companies like Italian restaurants: businesses. A startup is a very specific kind of business: one that starts small but could grow very large. Only a fraction of the 30 million businesses in the US are startups. I think what made people…

how is the business model of wufoo different from 37 signals? Are they a startup or a shoe store? A startup should simply be a company that is just getting started. Once they become profitable feel free to call the a "business".

Re: Hire Family People

#105
post #13

Even if people with kids were more productive per hour, that's not enough in a real startup. The empirical evidence is pretty clear on that. I can't think of a successful startup whose founders didn't, in addition to being smart and determined etc, also work long hours.

Perhaps the long hours are a consequence of the determination rather than a cause of the success.

I actually thought that people at Google were pretty reasonable. They weren't exactly 9-5, but most people weren't working 80 hours/week either (I certainly didn't).

Re: Hire Family People

#106
post #33

Thank you so much, 37signals guys. I've always found pg's essays to be motivational and inspring, but there are two things that always turn me off; 1.) I don't live in San Fransisco, and probably never will, and 2.) I have a family. I often feel dismissed by PG and his disciples. DHH's stuff gives me hope that there's still a chance for "fogeys" (cripes, I'm only 33!) like me. I have a feeling that, if I ever applied…

I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. We don't ask on the application form if people have kids, nor as far as I can recall have we asked anyone in an interview. The reason most of the people we fund don't have kids is simply that most of the people who apply don't have kids.

My co-founder has kids and is older than the OP, and we never felt like that had any impact on our acceptance to YC.

Re: Hire Family People

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. Further along also means financial resources or contacts that can make up the difference.

If you have financial resources - I guess you would only go to YC for the publicity ? The money would mean nothing.

We definitely didn't need the money, and we went to YC. I think plenty has been said about why folks choose YC, and it's pretty rarely the money. There are cheaper sources of financing.

Re: Hire Family People

#108
post #100
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a hijacking of the word that's not helpful at all. And I don't think that pg would argue that you can only call yourself a startup if you're going for VC funding and a sale or IPO. If so, there's an awful lot of tech companies that have been wrongfully labeled as startups under this narrow definition. And you'd only be able to call yourself a startup in retrospect once you saw whether you ended up bein…

So it's gotten this far now? DHH loves to start fights so much that he had to come over to PG's forum and start them? PG, who is always civil here, dragged into a stupid semantic fight? I boggle. "So 37signals would have been a startup if we sold to Google tomorrow, but not if we kept on as an independent company just making money?" No, man. You're just playing semantic games, and you know it . The company would have…

I think it's quite interesting to see him here. He disagrees, in a polite way. That kind of thing is healthy. I don't really agree with dhh's definition of a startup, but there's probably not a sharp line between 'startup' and 'a new business' in some cases. In any case, I like the 37signals model, even though I have some nagging doubts about whether it's really quite so simple in an on line world where network effects and other economic factors are often very different from "the real world".

Re: Hire Family People

#109
post #81

Thank you so much, 37signals guys. I've always found pg's essays to be motivational and inspring, but there are two things that always turn me off; 1.) I don't live in San Fransisco, and probably never will, and 2.) I have a family. I often feel dismissed by PG and his disciples. DHH's stuff gives me hope that there's still a chance for "fogeys" (cripes, I'm only 33!) like me. I have a feeling that, if I ever applied…

I have a feeling that, if I ever applied to YCombinator, my application would end up in the wastebasket the moment they caught a whiff of the fact that I have a wife and kids. Is that fair? No, it is not fair for you to air that feeling here. The YC partners get enough discouragement from having to reject a lot of smart people, so why add discouragement about someone speculating they would be rejected if they actuall…

News.yc is a community site. YC partners may be the stone in the stone soup but the soup comes from the community.

Re: Hire Family People

#110
post #103
post #54

I'll admit, DHH coming into Hacker News is a breath of fresh air, even if a few of the 20-somethings here (including myself) can sniff out the psuedo-defeatist , "statistically its not possible" scent it is tinged with. I think, on the whole of things, pg isn't out to attract the type of people that want to start the types of business DHH is talking about. I think pg is set out to do the same thing VC's do (invest in…

Maybe I'm in the minority. I think DHH's arrival here is a big gust of foul air. Suddenly the arguments are getting out of control, and pg's participating. Nitpicky, negative, petty debates. I've read every DHH post that's appeared here in the past days, and every one of them comes off like the work of a sophomoric contrarian who believes that the minor success he's had entitles him to tell the world how to think. I…

pg and dhh have been very civil in their exchanges, even though perhaps they're not exactly arguing over profound ideas. It appears that you are the one who has introduced personal attacks on dhh. Would you say those things to him in person?
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