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Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

nytimes.com

51–60 of 102 posts

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#51

> People who purchase the CVL token, a form of cryptocurrency, will have a say concerning the projects hosted by Civil — meaning that they can vote on whether one of its websites violates the company’s journalism standards, which are outlined in the Civil Constitution This features the worst elements of public ( e.g. the BBC ), private ( e.g. the Wall Street Journal ) and patronage ( e.g. the Washington Post ) media.…

> Letting token owners “vote on whether...websites violate the company’s journalism standards” explicitly removes editorial independence.

A better alternative would be to let token owners vote on what story to research next.

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#52
post #42

> People who purchase the CVL token, a form of cryptocurrency, will have a say concerning the projects hosted by Civil — meaning that they can vote on whether one of its websites violates the company’s journalism standards, which are outlined in the Civil Constitution This features the worst elements of public ( e.g. the BBC ), private ( e.g. the Wall Street Journal ) and patronage ( e.g. the Washington Post ) media.…

You’re assuming these votes are binding in some unreviewable, uncontrollable way. That seems quite unlikely.

Exactly. What enforcement mechanism is there, exactly? Who decides what action should be taken if the mass of owners deem the journalism of insufficient quality? This seems basically like a more toothless version of offering public stock.

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't emphasise this enough. Any system that lets (rich) people vote on what the truth is cannot be called journalism. It is simply not how facts work. This is also why Elon Musks recent initiative ("Pravduh"?) has all the populist appeal in the world, yet contains the risk to do serious damage to journalistic independence.

And who exactly do you think owns the current media companies in the US?

echoes of elon musk unintentional dog whistle lol.

sorry, had to comment as it’s still in recent memory.

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#54
post #8

This is the only application I've seen for a blockchain that isn't totally brain-dead. I'm certainly skeptical, but skepticism is better than certainty it will fail. I'll be watching it with interest.

Can you explain what you see as the benefit here? It looks like the tokens basically give some level of editorial control; therefore, wealthy individuals/organizations would be able to assert control over what gets published. And because of the anonymity, it wouldn't even be clear who is asserting this control.

I do like the idea of a digest of the article being put into the blockchain: it makes it impossible for sneaky edits or removal/denial of content at a later date.

When you hit publish, you better be prepared for that article to exist undeniably for eternity.

I'd like to see a twitter with the same features. Of course, blockchain isn't absolutely necessary here. You could sign a post with PGP 20 years ago and achieve the same.

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#55
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I would call very few people at the Murdoch’s and Mercer’s media conglomerates and the like journalists, and while they’ve significantly amplified extremism in the last two years, they’ve never been considered legitimate journalistic organizations like the New Yorker or the Washington Post.

WSJ is a pretty renowned newspaper. Coincidentally, they published the Theranos investigation which probably cost Murdoch $100mn. I'm somewhat entertained by the posters in this thread shitting on media organisations. You need to understand: the business model for a whole pillar of democracy is gone. $5 and your sarcastic comment will buy you a cafe latte, but the very last thing journalism needs more of is disruptio…

>"the business model for a whole pillar of democracy is gone."

Its just being exposed for what it is... the only new thing is discussion about it became common enough to pass the threshold for you to hear about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#56
> They will be partnering with the Civil Media Company, an ambitious New York start-up that aims to use griddles and pancake recipes to start 1,000 publications nationwide by the end of the year.

...actually I think the original quote said something about crypto, not pancakes, but I don't think it changes the underlying meaning. Why do you need a distributed, trustless database to run a local paper?

> The new publication will have a conventional website whose data will be written permanently into a MySQL database.

Whups, sorry, that actually was meant to say "...into the secure digital ledger known as the blockchain." Which...okay. 1) I think they mean "a blockchain", and 2) why do we...care? Is this so people will notice if the article is edited? Why not just push the content to a public git repo when it's published? Maybe sign the commits?

> People who purchase the CVL token, a form of cryptocurrency, will have a say concerning the projects hosted by Civil — meaning that they can vote on whether one of its websites violates the company’s journalism standards

So in other words, it's a lot like...a public company, that owns a newspaper, that then strips out every hint of editorial control, and then lets its shareholders directly have a say in every detail of what gets printed? So it's like...literally an attempt to create a newspaper even worse than the one they're quitting in order to form this one?

> Matthew Iles, the chief executive of Civil, said that by selling ownership stakes to the public, the company seeks to eliminate the possibility of one company or a small group of investors exerting power and influence over a journalistic organization and compromising its mission — exactly what many employees of the Denver Post accused Alden of doing.

By selling ownership, they think they're stopping one rich person from amassing a major ownership stake, as happened when their last newspaper sold ownership and allowed one rich person to amass a major ownership stake? What must it feel like to live with this level of blinding naivety?

The good news, such as it is, is that ownership of the tokens doesn't actually give anyone control over the newspaper, meaning that this is actually just meaningless hype. But, by the same logic, there's also no reason to actually buy the tokens. They have value only to the extent they allow editorial independence to be violated. So either they'll be valuable (but will undermine the journalistic ethics of the organisation), or they'll be worthless. There's no upside here.

It's early Monday morning in this part of the world, and I literally cannot figure out if this is an overly subtle troll or merely the dumbest idea I've heard in quite some time. This basically seems to be an attempt to use inappropriate technologies in order to carefully craft a "solution" that will make the problem worse. If you're worried about local newspapers being financially unviable and subject to intrusive editorial control...how does this do anything but make it worse?

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#57
post #3

Now I am no expert on blockchain and business administration but... Since these CVL tokens could be tradeable, and they grant "a say concerning the projects hosted by Civil"... Uhm... Doesn't this all look like, basically, company shares? Doesn't this mean that the problem has just been shifted but potentially not solved ?

If the article can be taken at face value, then yeah, they're exactly company shares, and they will cause exactly the same issue that the Denver Post suffered.

The "good news", such as it is, is that that part of the article is bullshit. They won't grant you the holders a say in the paper's editorial processes. That control will instead reside with the person actually funding the paper, which will be...

...the billionaire Joseph Lubin. Meaning they've already got the same issue that the Denver Post suffered.

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#58

This is the only application I've seen for a blockchain that isn't totally brain-dead. I'm certainly skeptical, but skepticism is better than certainty it will fail. I'll be watching it with interest.

Really? Because offhand this looks like one of the most brain-dead potential applications of a blockchain.

What problem do you think this is solving?

Re: Goodbye, Denver Post. Hello, Blockchain

#60
post #42

> People who purchase the CVL token, a form of cryptocurrency, will have a say concerning the projects hosted by Civil — meaning that they can vote on whether one of its websites violates the company’s journalism standards, which are outlined in the Civil Constitution This features the worst elements of public ( e.g. the BBC ), private ( e.g. the Wall Street Journal ) and patronage ( e.g. the Washington Post ) media.…

You’re assuming these votes are binding in some unreviewable, uncontrollable way. That seems quite unlikely.

> You’re assuming these votes are binding

My expectation is this will transfer wealth from blockchain zealots to journalists. It is telling, however, that the best defense I can rouse for this project is “the novel elements will probably fail”.

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