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Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

nytimes.com

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Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the meditators were better able to recognize their actual lack of giving a fuck

That's a really good point. People work hard to try to justify to themselves why they're doing what they're doing, and that's exactly the kind of bs that meditation helps you reconsider and cut through.

No wonder the #1 question on Google Trends is "What am I doing with my life?"

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#22
I haven't read the article so this is more off the cuff.

I read Emotional Intelligence by Goleman couple of months ago. And one of the bigger takeaways for me was that "meditation" or calmness was not an answer for everything. While meditation works on anger, stress (which are heightened emotions) etc it is not a good option when you are feeling sad/down. The better option will be to go out, have fun and get your emotional state up a bit.

So, IMO is meditation pill for everything? No but if you are stressed it is the best thing you can do.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#23
I have ADD, and at least one form of meditation clearly helps me makes choices better for me when I do it regularly. Many people are clearly motivated in a way that is detrimental to them, and if it helps them in a similar way, they might very well become less motivated by seeing their situation more clearly. Work is a necessity, an abstracted exchange of labour.

But if the same holds for people without ADD and the most common meditation methods. Work output and quality is still going to be higher, although your employees might not appear as enthusiastic as before.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#24
post #4

My theory is that (correct) meditation makes people more aware of what's good for them and what isn't. One result of this could be that they realize that most of their goals in a company are BS so they lose motivation. I know a lot of Buddhists including monks and they certainly are very active and motivated people. They are just a little pickier about what they put their energy into.

There isn't really one "correct" way to meditate. There are a number of ways. You can observe thoughts, sounds, bodily awareness, specific bodily sensations, feelings, the breath, look at some specific object or a combination of all these. Meditation can be an active activity (you're trying to cultivate certain intentions) or it can be passive (you just let things happen). You can choose to be more narrowly focused on your meditation object or less and just let whatever comes, comes. In my view, as long as you're focused on something without judgement then you're meditating. Mindfulness meditation would be a subset of this where you're observing your own experience without judgment. I really doubt that this alone would lead to knowing what is good for you and what isn't, without an underlying philosophy (which Buddhism provides, but the westernized secular version of mindfulness meditation does not).

Edit: I guess I should also add that Buddhist philosophy is influenced by insights that could be gained from meditation but my feeling is that the average person doing mindfulness meditation for 10 minutes a day is not having these insights. So my main argument here is that you can be meditating correctly and not having these insights.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#25
Ignoring the quality of the article and cited study, I did massively cut down my meditation routine for exactly this reason.

Essentially, through meditation I learnt how to release "knots in my brain". This was exceedingly pleasant to an extent I cannot emphasize enough.

But then I realized that these knots in my brain were often associated with things I wanted to figure out.

I used to release them by figuring something out. But when I knew how to release them a whole lot quicker without having to ever bother with the difficulty of figuring something out, naturally I figured stuff out a whole lot less.

That made me sad. So I decided that particular meditation skill was one I wanted to unlearn.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#26
I think I'm a good canditate to share my experience here.

Just a few years ago I used to be grumpy, fought with my best friend over trivial issues and used to be depressed.

Then I re-discovered meditation and I was calm. I do ot regularly and you won't believe how peaceful I am. If I don't meditate then I become restless (I am a workoholic who has just finished writing my fourth novel, in six months time and now working on fifth one).

Meditation isn't to make you a Superman at your job. It is to make you be at peace, if you attain inner peace then it is worth it.

I also discovered that the breathing exercises in Yoga help a lot.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#27

My sample set is small, but I remain dubious about this study. Accomplished meditators are very rarely couch potatoes; they tackle things that need to tackled with calm, wisdom, and efficiency. True, motivations like "I don't want to yelled at.", or "I want more money.", or "I want to look good and smart to everybody." will go away or at least have less impact. But they are replaced by "How can I make this happier pl…

Although tour sample size is small, you are making the right conclusion out of it.

If you don't meditate then you are trapped in the cycle of wanting confirmation and approval from others.

After meditation you realise that it doesn't matter one bit what others think or say about you.

Inner peace is all that matters.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#28

I haven't read the article so this is more off the cuff. I read Emotional Intelligence by Goleman couple of months ago. And one of the bigger takeaways for me was that "meditation" or calmness was not an answer for everything. While meditation works on anger, stress (which are heightened emotions) etc it is not a good option when you are feeling sad/down. The better option will be to go out, have fun and get your emo…

Exactly. If you are sad and you meditate you might feel super depressed as you'd want to give up everything in lofe wondering "what's the point in all this?"

Meditation is for getting a calm mind and not being bothered by stupid things like countless notifications etc it doesn't make us superman or batman

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#29
post #25

Ignoring the quality of the article and cited study, I did massively cut down my meditation routine for exactly this reason. Essentially, through meditation I learnt how to release "knots in my brain". This was exceedingly pleasant to an extent I cannot emphasize enough. But then I realized that these knots in my brain were often associated with things I wanted to figure out . I used to release them by figuring somet…

Recently started meditating daily, and I was worried about exactly this towards the beginning. I work with my mind, I like using my mind to solve problems. The guidance I was getting for the sessions was of this "let thoughts come and go, just observe, be neutral" variety. While I see the value, and I've enjoyed the overall effects, it seemed to be pointing away from thinking as a thing to do. How can you do something like brainstorming if you're just letting thoughts pass, not following up with them?

Later, there have been some hints about a more "concentrating" style of exercise. I.e. rather than just focusing on the breath, body, outside sounds, whatever, actually spending the session with an idea as the starting point of the focus. Then staying on track with it, exploring just that one thing.

I've tried this once or twice now, unprompted, and I'm eager to learn more about it. I haven't reached any conclusions, but the meditative state of mind seems to be good for this. Brainstorming is more effective if you're in a less distraction-prone mode.

I don't know if this matches up with your experience, but it might be worth trying to use a session to, so to speak, untie a knot, rather than just letting it go.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#30

I haven't read the article so this is more off the cuff. I read Emotional Intelligence by Goleman couple of months ago. And one of the bigger takeaways for me was that "meditation" or calmness was not an answer for everything. While meditation works on anger, stress (which are heightened emotions) etc it is not a good option when you are feeling sad/down. The better option will be to go out, have fun and get your emo…

Different meditative practices surely have different goals, but to my experience the big advantage is making clearer to myself the actual content of the emotional state I'm in. And thus making better decisions about "handling" that state.

In other words, (for me) meditation does not directly solve the problem: it just lets me see and consider the problem more clearly.

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