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Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

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Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#31
post #25

Isn't there a new cathode material promising manyfold improvement announced about every three weeks or so? I'd like to see one of them actually deliver in new batteries. But instead, the 50% or so improvement we've seen over the last ten years have all been because of incremental refinement. Color me skeptical until it's proven in production.

There has been an enormous amount work on battery technology for the last 30 years. Probably 99% of it leads to dead ends.

Standard rule of battery development, if everything goes right it takes ten years to market. And another ten to get market share. In the late 90's early 2000's there was paper after paper published on lithium iron phosphate batteries and dick all nothing for sale until ~2010. And ten years later market share is growing slowly.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#32
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not nastiness like pure fluorine or hydrofluoric acid, but a salt. It may be somewhat toxic, but it does not require extraordinary handling precautions.

I wonder what happens when it catches fire?

Probably the risk level increase as much as when you add a tablespoon of Sodium Chloride [1] to a burning fireplace.

[1] table salt

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#33
If even half of these amazing battery technologies had come true, my car would be driven by a D cell battery.

But I'm ok that it hasn't, because I once heard a battery chemistry guy say that "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb." I can't find the reference any more, but with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#34
post #31
post #25

Isn't there a new cathode material promising manyfold improvement announced about every three weeks or so? I'd like to see one of them actually deliver in new batteries. But instead, the 50% or so improvement we've seen over the last ten years have all been because of incremental refinement. Color me skeptical until it's proven in production.

There has been an enormous amount work on battery technology for the last 30 years. Probably 99% of it leads to dead ends. Standard rule of battery development, if everything goes right it takes ten years to market. And another ten to get market share. In the late 90's early 2000's there was paper after paper published on lithium iron phosphate batteries and dick all nothing for sale until ~2010. And ten years later…

Are there any main reasons for this?

I'd assume conservative and long-design time downstream users mean there isn't a volume market for new battery tech.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#35

If even half of these amazing battery technologies had come true, my car would be driven by a D cell battery. But I'm ok that it hasn't, because I once heard a battery chemistry guy say that "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb." I can't find the reference any more, but with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

> with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

Are there really a lot of Samsungs catching fire though, in the grand scheme of things?

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#36

If even half of these amazing battery technologies had come true, my car would be driven by a D cell battery. But I'm ok that it hasn't, because I once heard a battery chemistry guy say that "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb." I can't find the reference any more, but with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

> with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true. Are there really a lot of Samsungs catching fire though, in the grand scheme of things?

More than the teslas I think ;)

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#37

It's was about time we moved on to the next energy-storage technology for mobile devices. I can't believe in 2018, battery is still the main issue of all flagships.

I think the issue is still all the background activity. My phone (moto x pure) lasts multiple days in airplane+battery saver mode. It was 30% charged after using it for GPS/maps and occasional music on a 4-day backpacking (hiking) trip.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#38

If even half of these amazing battery technologies had come true, my car would be driven by a D cell battery. But I'm ok that it hasn't, because I once heard a battery chemistry guy say that "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb." I can't find the reference any more, but with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

These have not much to do with attempt at increasing power density, but everything to do with particle contamination during the manufacturing process.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#39

If even half of these amazing battery technologies had come true, my car would be driven by a D cell battery. But I'm ok that it hasn't, because I once heard a battery chemistry guy say that "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb." I can't find the reference any more, but with all the Samsungs and Teslas catching fire, it rings true.

> "the higher capacity a battery is the more it resembles a bomb."

You mean like gasoline?

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#40
post #15

I'm thinking the battery explosions will be more spectacular too.

Consider the energy density of a cup of water when viewed as fuel for fusion reactions.

Zero? A cup of water doesn't typically contain tritium.
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