Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating • Hacker News Board

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#11

Post by darkerside » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 12:24 AM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #7

TipVFL wrote: post #5

The title is total clickbait. From the article: "Then we tracked everyone’s actual performance on the tasks. Here we found that on average, having meditated neither benefited nor detracted from a participant’s quality of work." They found that people who meditated were more calm and serene, reported less motivation, but performed similarly to people who had done non-meditative activities. It seems to me that having a…

Not only that, but the tasks these people were assigned are not good models for work tasks. In a real professional workplace, the tasks are usually related to systems or processes over which the individuals feel ownership. Random tasks about which they know nothing are convenient for a study, but not a good model of actual work.

Perhaps the meditators were better able to recognize their actual lack of giving a fuck

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#12

Post by maxander » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 12:25 AM UTC

I don't have time at the moment to read the article in detail, but it sounds like the experiment tested non-meditators on work tasks immediately following a meditation session. I don't believe that this has much bearing on the overall levels of motivation on someone who does or does not meditate in general; it's easy to imagine that right after a relaxing mindfulness session people would be a bit sleepy and less inclined to carry out experimental makework tasks dutifully, but the meaningful benefits of meditation would presumably last much longer than such drowsiness.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#13

Post by hprotagonist » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 12:51 AM UTC

But now I knew contemplation at its height. At its height, but not yet in its fullness. For in its fullness the way of Mary includes the way of Martha and raises it, so to speak, to its own higher power. Mescalin opens up the way of Mary, but shuts the door on that of Martha. It gives access to contemplation---but to a contemplation that is incompatible with action and even with the will to action, the very thought of action. In the intervals between his revelations the mescalin taker is apt to feel that, though in one way everything is supremely as it should be, in another there is something wrong. His problem is essentially the same as that which confronts the quietist, the arhat and, on another level, the landscape painter and the painter of human still lives. Mescalin can never solve that problem; it can only pose it, apocalyptically, for those to whom it had never before presented itself. The full and final solution can be found only by those who are prepared to implement the right kind of Welranschauung by means of the right kind of behavior and the right kind of constant and unstrained alertness. Over against the quietist stands the active-contemplative, the saint, the man who, in Eckhart's phrase, is ready to come down from the seventh heaven in order to bring a cup of water to his sick brother.

Aldous Huxley, "the doors of perception"

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#14

Post by 121watts » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

I have found that meditation is demotivating -- in behhaviors and activities that don't serve me.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#15

Post by superobserver » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 2:25 AM UTC

Clearly not accurate. For one thing, there are many kinds of meditation, so the assessment that meditation (as a whole) is demotivating is overgeneralizing. Secondly, as further revealed by the study itself, motivation isn't a factor for successful task completion, so there may be something about self-attributed motivation that is superfluous to task completion (i.e., meditators become disabused of that and merely handle the task at hand).

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#16

Post by antonvs » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 2:56 AM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #11

skywhopper wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but the tasks these people were assigned are not good models for work tasks. In a real professional workplace, the tasks are usually related to systems or processes over which the individuals feel ownership. Random tasks about which they know nothing are convenient for a study, but not a good model of actual work.

Perhaps the meditators were better able to recognize their actual lack of giving a fuck

That's a really good point. People work hard to try to justify to themselves why they're doing what they're doing, and that's exactly the kind of bs that meditation helps you reconsider and cut through.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#17

Post by antonvs » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 3:08 AM UTC

zupatol wrote: post #2

> the very notion of motivation — striving to obtain a more desirable future — implies some degree of discontentment with the present Surely there must be a study somewhere that shows how the right kind of misery makes employees more productive.

Do your employees seem satisfied and happy? Big red flag! That means they're not working to their full potential.

Don't leave money on the table! Give us a call at Controlled Misery Inc., and we can help you access the increased productivity that comes only from optimizing your employees' misery levels.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#18

Post by alfredallan1 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 3:21 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #4

My theory is that (correct) meditation makes people more aware of what's good for them and what isn't. One result of this could be that they realize that most of their goals in a company are BS so they lose motivation. I know a lot of Buddhists including monks and they certainly are very active and motivated people. They are just a little pickier about what they put their energy into.

What it does, among other things, is stop the meditator from running around like a headless chicken, chasing notifications and like counts, gasping at every clickbait-ey title, and pursing meaningless trivia, in addition to making 3 impulse purchases on Amazon everyday. So yeah, depending on the definition of motivation, meditation can be highly demotivating.

But by that same definition of motivation, most focussed people, and most people who’ve found success in their particular area, regardless of meditator-status, can be considered highly demotivated.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#19

Post by alfredallan1 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 3:27 AM UTC

antonvs wrote: post #17

zupatol wrote: post #2

> the very notion of motivation — striving to obtain a more desirable future — implies some degree of discontentment with the present Surely there must be a study somewhere that shows how the right kind of misery makes employees more productive.

Do your employees seem satisfied and happy? Big red flag! That means they're not working to their full potential. Don't leave money on the table! Give us a call at Controlled Misery Inc., and we can help you access the increased productivity that comes only from optimizing your employees' misery levels.

Bright new startup idea: Meditation as a Service. MaaS.

A solid alternative, for the modern non-believer, to the more traditional Mass services.

Mission statement: Beware the risks of over-meditating! We aim to offer the (scientifically detemined) precise amount of medidation, customized to each individual, on a weekly basis to ensure optimal motivation and productivity levels among staff.

Re: Studies find evidence that meditation is demotivating

#20

Post by fnordsensei » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 4:57 AM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #7

TipVFL wrote: post #5

The title is total clickbait. From the article: "Then we tracked everyone’s actual performance on the tasks. Here we found that on average, having meditated neither benefited nor detracted from a participant’s quality of work." They found that people who meditated were more calm and serene, reported less motivation, but performed similarly to people who had done non-meditative activities. It seems to me that having a…

Not only that, but the tasks these people were assigned are not good models for work tasks. In a real professional workplace, the tasks are usually related to systems or processes over which the individuals feel ownership. Random tasks about which they know nothing are convenient for a study, but not a good model of actual work.

Not only that, but (speaking from personal, anecdotal experience), most of the benefit as it applies to work tasks will be realized over time, for outcomes where consistent and sustained focus and stress management is most beneficial.

That being said, what the mindfulness movement tends to gloss over is the fact that, with enough determination, meditators will occasionally shake loose deep-seated mental gunk, resulting in better quality of life if processed, but sometimes with a tumultuous period while dealing with it. Naturally, performance in other areas of life might drop during such a period.