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Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

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Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't it always be an issue? I have a feeling they'll just put in more and better power-hungry hardware and software and we'll be back in the minimally acceptable battery life range.

Right. And if they don’t do that, then the phone will just get thinner. We already have incredible energy density compared to a decade ago, but that budget is used up by shaving millimeters off the thickness.

> used up by shaving millimeters off the thickness

I wish they didn't do that, I would gladly carry around a slightly bigger phone if it had much better battery life.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#22

It's was about time we moved on to the next energy-storage technology for mobile devices. I can't believe in 2018, battery is still the main issue of all flagships.

Won't it always be an issue? I have a feeling they'll just put in more and better power-hungry hardware and software and we'll be back in the minimally acceptable battery life range.

A Jevon's paradox on battery life. Hmm, yea.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#23

> By adding cobalt and oxygen atoms to iron fluoride nanorods Could someone who knows this area comment whether this sounds expensive to manufacture?

"Typically, FeF3∙3H2O and CoF3 were ball milled at a molar ratio of 9:1 for 30 min to reduce the particle size and get a homogeneous reactant mixture. Then, 170 mg of such mixture was dispersed in 1-propanol (75 ml) and stirred vigorously at room temperature for half an hour. The resulting suspension was transferred into a Teflon-lined 100 ml stainless-steel autoclave reactor, and subsequently sealed and heated at 210 °C for 24 h in an oven. For comparison, FeOF was also synthesized by the same procedure using pure FeF3∙3H2O as the starting material dispersed in butyl-alcohol. FeF3 was prepared by ball milling the as-purchased FeF3 for 6 h. The pre-lithiation of Fe0.9Co0.1OF is synthesized by ball milling Fe0.9Co0.1OF and LiH at a molar ratio of 1:2 for 10 h."

This is standard ceramic slurry processing, they mix the powders with some liquid and then heat the two ceramics together to do a solid state reaction. I am somewhat impressed that the reaction went suitably at 210C, but that's not particularly hot. I'd think that the raw material costs would dominate here.

EDIT: Ball milling is when you spin a jar on rollers with the ceramic powder and big teflon beads that crush it gradually over a long period of time. It can be done dry or wet, but it's not a fancy procedure.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#24

It's was about time we moved on to the next energy-storage technology for mobile devices. I can't believe in 2018, battery is still the main issue of all flagships.

Put the battery we have now into a Nokia flip phone from the 90s. It’ll probably run for weeks.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#25
Isn't there a new cathode material promising manyfold improvement announced about every three weeks or so?

I'd like to see one of them actually deliver in new batteries. But instead, the 50% or so improvement we've seen over the last ten years have all been because of incremental refinement.

Color me skeptical until it's proven in production.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#26
post #9

> A conventional graphite cathode, in a process known as intercalation, can only transfer a single electron. But compounds like iron trifluoride can transfer multiple electrons. Flourine is difficult to work with, so these batteries may cost more. Hopefully the energy density offsets the cost.

This is not nastiness like pure fluorine or hydrofluoric acid, but a salt. It may be somewhat toxic, but it does not require extraordinary handling precautions.

I wonder what happens when it catches fire?

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. And if they don’t do that, then the phone will just get thinner. We already have incredible energy density compared to a decade ago, but that budget is used up by shaving millimeters off the thickness.

> used up by shaving millimeters off the thickness I wish they didn't do that, I would gladly carry around a slightly bigger phone if it had much better battery life.

[deleted]

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#29

> A conventional graphite cathode, in a process known as intercalation, can only transfer a single electron. But compounds like iron trifluoride can transfer multiple electrons. Flourine is difficult to work with, so these batteries may cost more. Hopefully the energy density offsets the cost.

...and yet sodium fluoride is a component of common toothpaste. Manufacturers of sodium chloride (table salt) don't work with chlorine, either.

Re: Scientists say new material can triple lithium-ion battery energy density

#30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not nastiness like pure fluorine or hydrofluoric acid, but a salt. It may be somewhat toxic, but it does not require extraordinary handling precautions.

I wonder what happens when it catches fire?

I'm sure it burns just like regular lithium-ion batters.[0] The addition of FeF3 probably doesn't change the correct response to the hazards much -- put out the fire if you know how to safely do so with the proper personal protective equipment, otherwise get the heck away.[1]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLc74Qpvweg

[1] http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/appli...

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