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Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#101

Post by jonknee »

stevenwei wrote: post #17

Incidentally, requiring Facebook/Twitter on any iPhone/iPad app will absolutely destroy your ratings. Take the recently released Gourmet Live app for example: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id391597058?mt=8 Although they made some especially poor choices in that app (you can end up navigating into sections of the app that you can't get out of without giving a Facebook/Twitter login, oops).

I deleted Gourmet Live as soon as I saw it requires you to cough up Facebook or Twitter logins to use fully. I have both but don't trust Gourmet to not spam my friends. Facebook is especially hostile to privacy and I will never use Connect.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#102

Post by kenjackson »

portman wrote: post #69
bl4k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two fake Facebook accounts that I use to sign in to services. I even have a good rep on Quora using a completely fake name. Forcing Facebook because you think it will give you real people and verified accounts is wrong.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not saying that forcing Facebook will 100% eliminate fraud. But forcing Facebook can reduce fraud, by several orders of magnitude. Authentication isn't -- and shouldn't be -- a one-size-fits-all problem. For us, Facebook has worked extremely well. (We originally supported Twitter and OpenID but dropped them when it turned out that 100% of our fraud incidents had authenticated with one of…

This is exactly why I wouldn't join your site. I don't want you crawling my list of friends, likes/dislikes, etc... to determine if I should be able to buy a T-Shirt (or whatever product it is that you sell).

With that said, my Facebook account probably wouldn't pass your test as I recently removed all my pictures, and removed all my likes disklikes, and most of my "friends". And have virtually no activity on it.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#104

Post by clr »

I'll never require it, but clients want it. Demand it. Even if they can't articulate why. We can strongly disrecommend it as a strategy and advise them to why but I'm not walking away from business right now. Because if we refuse to do it, someone else will do so gladly. At least we've tried to educate them as to why it's a bad idea, and maybe some day they'll come back and ask us to remove it.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#105

Post by kenjackson »

Lewisham wrote: post #65
far33d wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you trust a website asking for an email and password more?

Yeah, exactly. When I see a Facebook login, what I parse is "this site decided that it was a better idea to leave security to the professionals rather than hack something together. A secondary benefit is that I get to get through this signup in 20 seconds than 3 minutes." When I see a dodgy username and password form, what I parse is "I can't wait for them to email me back my password in plaintext, and then store it…

Why do you think Facebook security is security by professionals? I fully expect that Microsoft and Google have a stronger set of security experts working on their various authentication and encryption methods.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#106

Post by targz »

iloveyouocean wrote: post #94
loyaltyspace wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I've lost track of how many times I've gone to a Quora answer, thought 'I must take a closer look at Quora', gone to the root domain, realised you need a Facebook login, then just navigated away. I even have a Facebook account somewhere - just don't like logging into another site like this for some reason.

The inconvenience of finding/creating a Facebook account to use in joining Quora is, imo, completely worth the value offered by Quora. You have to choose your battles. At a certain point I would rather have access than have my way.

The problem is, in order to know that Quora is good enough to force you to use FB Connect even though you don't want to, you have to use FB Connect... I'm certain this slows their growth.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#107

Post by joshhart »

bl4k wrote: post #47
portman wrote: post #39

I have a site that requires Facebook to login. For this site, user fraud is a big concern. I would much rather have an easy way to tell if someone is a "real" person, and Facebook gives me that. If my market size goes from 1.5B to 500M because of this decision, that's fine. In our case, it's a calculated choice, like the dozens of calculated choices a startup makes every day.

I have two fake Facebook accounts that I use to sign in to services. I even have a good rep on Quora using a completely fake name. Forcing Facebook because you think it will give you real people and verified accounts is wrong.

They might know that it's you, actually.

I spoke with a facebook employee recently and they apparently spend quite a bit of effort identifying likely duplicate accounts. Usually people make several accounts to have more farmville neighbors, so you may not get lumped in this category, but who knows.

Google does the same thing - I believe there was a post here recently about an interview where an employee said their was a console matching accounts and likely duplicate accounts the person has.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#108

Post by thenotself »

I'd enjoy a 3rd party login manager that is a separate system from Facebook. Some place where I can view all sites that I have authorized, manage my communication settings, and keep track of who I've registered with. I don't want facebook to know this about me.

I'd be more comfortable with Google doing this. It would simplify my sign in process for new websites, reduce the number of accounts and passwords I need to manage, remove the need for a password manager like 1password, and give me quick access to disable or block access to sites I no longer want to have an account with.

A startup could tackle this, but they would have to build trust and widespread adoption.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#109

Post by wvenable »

mquander wrote: post #72
hapless wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's impractical about it ? I'm very comfortable with separate identities per-site. If your site isn't worth a separate identity, why am I interacting with it in the first place?

I'm comfortable with separate identities per site, but it is impractical for most people. You have three general choices: - Maintain a separate login and password for every site. This requires a lot of memorization and is a pain in the ass when you find yourself trying four passwords because you forgot which you used. - Use password management software or a naming system that lets you keep track. This is effective bu…

I'm not comfortable using any sort of 3rd party service. I also don't like that I have any kind of connected identity across multiple sites.

This sort of authentication system should be built into the browser, entirely under my control, and every site should be given a separate identity token.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#110

Post by binaryfinery »

Yes: Don't force me to log in with facebook.

No: Don't force me to make another fucking password.

I have a whole shitload of passwords. I use an independent (not in the browser) password tool. I'd really like to be able to generate a password and login automatically: i.e. for my tool and the website to automatically hook up.

Oh, yeah that's called OpenID: http://openid.net/get-an-openid/

And no jokes about my tool please.

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