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How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

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Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#11

Post by mcbits »

SyneRyder wrote: post #3

I'm nervous about a Pocket news feed in Firefox. The idea sounds promising, but in practice Pocket's Discovery feature surfaces a kind of pseudo-personalized clickbait that is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Here's some of the stories my Pocket Discovery feed found for me today: "Why your brain hates other people" "The most hated Bachelor in America explains himself" "You're doing Scrum wrong and here's how to fix…

I tried to use Pocket a while back. First it put me in an HN cluster where it would recommend all the articles posted on HN that I didn't save to Pocket because I wasn't interested.

Then I intentionally avoided saving articles from HN and just saved any decent blog posts related to programming. One of those must have mentioned Merkle trees or something because it started recommending "5 ways Bitcoin will make your farts smell better" etc. Then I gave up.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#12

Post by trendia »

bhhaskin wrote: post #6

Why can't my web browser just browse the web? Why does it need to be a news feed as well?

I moved to the ESR branch specifically to get a web browser that just browses the web. (It's the default in Debian for that very reason!)

However, version 60 added pocket, along with other "features" such as the optional Firefox experiments (where, if you opt in, they track your user behavior to improve the browser).

Guess I'll be looking for a new browser again.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#13

Post by windlep »

trendia wrote: post #12
bhhaskin wrote: post #6

Why can't my web browser just browse the web? Why does it need to be a news feed as well?

I moved to the ESR branch specifically to get a web browser that just browses the web. (It's the default in Debian for that very reason!) However, version 60 added pocket, along with other "features" such as the optional Firefox experiments (where, if you opt in, they track your user behavior to improve the browser). Guess I'll be looking for a new browser again.

Hover over pocket area on new tab, click the '...' in the top right, click "Remove Section", done.

Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience, that's why the ability to easily remove options you might not like will always exist. If/when this ever changes, that would be a significant departure from their Mission statement.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#14

Post by cJ0th »

People do complain about FBs feed but they don't really care. If I were to ask you whether you'd like to sleep one more hour in the morning then you answering "yes" wouldn't imply that you don't get enough sleep. A technically better solution alone isn't convincing. They need a service that delights at least some people.

And so I think their chances would be higher (but still pretty low) if they were spending serious amounts of money on a campaign to promote RSS and a service similar to google reader. That way they'd at least get tech-savy people on board who would then act as evangelists for them.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#15

Post by mistermann »

SyneRyder wrote: post #3

I'm nervous about a Pocket news feed in Firefox. The idea sounds promising, but in practice Pocket's Discovery feature surfaces a kind of pseudo-personalized clickbait that is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Here's some of the stories my Pocket Discovery feed found for me today: "Why your brain hates other people" "The most hated Bachelor in America explains himself" "You're doing Scrum wrong and here's how to fix…

> It's lots of outrage & negativity, and I imagine it's because that's the kind of article people are actually reading & sharing, so that's what feeds the recommendation algorithms

I would think a ML model could fairly accurately judge the level to which articles are written in an intentionally inflammatory way, I would like to see tech companies start to make a sincere effort to allow users set an adjustable filter on this "inflammatory-ranking" dimension of the content in their feed.

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#17

Post by forapurpose »

People are overlooking how critical this technology could be for privacy, mass surveillance, and all its consequences: Personalization has been the selling point, albeit disingenuously, for the surveillance. It may be true that people won't use technologies which provide confidentiality if it means giving up personalization. A solution that does the personalization locally and with local data, thus preserving confidentiality, and which is open and free, could be pivotal.

The same was true with Firefox' customized home page ads of a few years ago. Everyone focused on 'advertising in Firefox', and overlooked the critical work they were doing: solving the problem of advertising, a seeming necessary evil, with confidentiality. In the uproar, the great value of that work was lost (IIRC).

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#18

Post by trendia »

windlep wrote: post #13
trendia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to the ESR branch specifically to get a web browser that just browses the web. (It's the default in Debian for that very reason!) However, version 60 added pocket, along with other "features" such as the optional Firefox experiments (where, if you opt in, they track your user behavior to improve the browser). Guess I'll be looking for a new browser again.

Hover over pocket area on new tab, click the '...' in the top right, click "Remove Section", done. Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience, that's why the ability to easily remove options you might not like will always exist. If/when this ever changes, that would be a significant departure from their Mission statement.

> Firefox is about letting you control your browser experience

The true history of Pocket suggests otherwise -- in 2015 Mozilla integrated Pocket, which was at that time a private company separate from Mozilla, into Firefox.

Further, when Mozilla first integrated it into Firefox, there was no way to remove it, only hide the icon:

> "This page http://help.getpocket.com/customer/portal/articles/1999137-h.... purports to tell you how to disable Pocket for Firefox, yet all it does is remove the button from the toolbar. Searching "pocket" in about:config reveals numerous preferences that can be edited, including browser.pocket.enabled which remains set to true after following Pocket's instructions."

Only after severe backlash [0] did Mozilla decide the best way to handle it was to purchase Pocket.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9667809

Re: How Firefox is using Pocket to try to build a better news feed than Facebook

#20

Post by dingaling »

forapurpose wrote: post #16
bhhaskin wrote: post #6

Why can't my web browser just browse the web? Why does it need to be a news feed as well?

It can. Just don't use Pocket or disable it.

But Mozilla are still pouring mental and financial resources into Pocket, including the servers to host it and power its recommendations. So just ignoring it still leaves a deleterious effect on Firefox overall.
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