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The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

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Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#21

“MFA in creative writing” The article should be titled “The Absurdity of Useless Degrees”. It’s a very different calculus for someone taking out loans for an engineering degree.

An engineering degree is arguably by far even more absurd in cost. Significant class loads that make working a part time job unrealistic, making you rely upon dorm and food plan costs which match that of tuiton yearly. A significant amount of dorms have living conditions that universities would argue any other commercial enterprise shouldn't be able to call 'housing'. Not even an oven to be found.

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#22

“MFA in creative writing” The article should be titled “The Absurdity of Useless Degrees”. It’s a very different calculus for someone taking out loans for an engineering degree.

By reading strictly your sentence, I sense a definition of useful as "the way to repay a big debt".

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#23

It troubles me that topics like this usually turn into FUD about the 1% instead of recognizing government interference and subsidation as the problem. The parable of the scorpion and frog [1] is exactly relevant. I wish Americans would stop shouting for more government to fix problems the government created in the first place. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog?wp...

Neither the article nor the link you share mention the government or the 1%, or even investigate causes or solutions for student loan debt at all.

The article is about student loan debt, and my claim is that it's the government's fault. My link is purposefully not on topic - that's the purpose and definition of a parable.

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#24
The first bill I received for my MFA loans was for $416.

I panicked and applied for an income-based repayment plan, which, paired with my habitual underearning, lowered my payments to $96 a month.

After five years of payments, I now owe more than what I originally borrowed because my payments haven’t even scratched the principal.

Income based repayments forgives the loans and interest after 25 years.

Original principal is $44,000. $96 X 12 = $1,152 / year. 25 X 1152 = $28,800 total repaid.

So, 20 years to go...

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#25
post #6

In the US, do student loans need collateral? I recently went through the process in India and was quite surprised at the amount of rigour - the bank requested a lot of information including grades since high school, discussed potential earnings and requested that the familial home be hypothecated to the bank.

I don't know the details, but here goes...

In the USA, government and private student loans are easily available. I have never heard of anyone who couldn't study becuase they couldn't get loans, though I'm sure it happens. I have heard of many people who accumulate huge debts for degrees that offer a low increase in potential future earnings. Like an MFA frankly.

This is mostly becuase USA student debt is a special debt that follows you for life. It cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can enslave yourself with a bad loan. Your soul is the collateral.

That's the absurdity the author refers to.

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#26
Student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy after 10 years post-graduation (and not fully guaranteed past a certain amount, say $10K or $20K) -- hear me out.

The common reason student loans are NOT allowed to be dischargeable is because, in the minute after graduating and without collateral, the student can declare bankruptcy with no effect (the vast majority are not buying a house within the time it would take for their credit to repair).

This has the side effect of blunting market forces. It is the same amount of interest and same approval process to get 200K for medical school as it does for an art degree, despite market forces suggesting that the former are vastly more needed (ok, granted, there's the AMA, but that's another discussion). It doesn't matter to the bank -- after all you can just repay a little bit until you're 70 years old.

Allowing things to be dischargeable 10 years after graduation would reintroduce market forces. You want 200K for medical school (maybe we change the post-graduation length a bit to account for residency / fellowship)? Great! Almost guaranteed well-paying job out the other end.

But 150K for an expensive art school + MFA? You better be prepared to have your credit looked at under a microscope. Application rejected.

What would this mean? This would mean that schools would actually have either a) provide more value to the individual, b) charge less or c) accept much smaller classes. It would mean they would probably have to focus most of their energy on education + job placement rather than funding more school athletics and building a fancier dorm.

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#27
What angers me the most about debt like this is people often take on far more debt than they need for a degree. For example, going to a university in a different country/state where they cannot get any of the scholarships intended for residents. Another one a lot of my friends have done is going to a university that is substantially more expensive for very little gain. Another common one is renting student housing when it is perfectly feasible to live at home and commute. While the debt still may be excessive, it can be substantially reduced.

Also, a specific thing for anyone working on a degree (particularly an undergrad), check out CLEP exams. Very affordable per credit hour and you don't need to spend a semester listening to a professor [1].

[1] https://www.elearners.com/education-resources/finances/savin...

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#28

Middle class should be able to afford college tuition. Stop being fancy when you're not and live within your means

College tuiton by itself with help from federal and state aid, yes. Housing+food costs if you can't get an apartment, that matches tuiton in my state. It should be that you work a part time job to pay rent and be able to make your own food, that way you get good living conditions and don't pay back an absurd amount after college. But lots of universities around here are designed to not even have much housing around them. You have to drive and pay for a $150 a semester parking pass, which is not guaranteed to have a spot.

Re: The Absurdity of Student Loan Debt

#29
post #17

When people like Gillette take on debt, why is there never minimal cost-benefit analysis? Or do they ignore it? It's refreshing to read a reflection like hers.

> is there never minimal cost-benefit analysis?

Of course not. A huge portion of the population has essentially no understanding of finances, which is why they need to do things like call to ask why their loan balance is going up. Worse, there is a feeling of helplessness when finances seem like a mystery, hence in this case actually needing someone else to tell them to call and ask.

This is why the cries of “free market!” when, e.g., discussing caps on usurious rates at payday loan companies are missing the point. People get trapped in debt with no way and no understanding of how to get out.

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