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For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

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Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#141

Post by Turing_Machine »

FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

> This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50.

Many of whom get reimbursed by their employers for transportation costs, don't forget. $20 for an airport run is going to look damned cheap to the people who process the expense accounts. It will never be questioned.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#142

Post by Turing_Machine »

gowld wrote: post #79
selectodude wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's substantially less of an issue in a dense urban environment like Chicago.

How is walking half a mile with luggage less of an issue?

If that's a problem, you just grab a relatively* cheap cab or Uber/Lyft from where you are to the Boring station.

* "Relatively cheap" compared to taking the cab all the way to O'Hare.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#143

Post by Turing_Machine »

ant6n wrote: post #115
nickik wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you never have progress for rich people then you will never have much progress at all. Where will you build a revolutionary first transportation system for the masses? Literally every form of transport started as a luxury.

What about walking?

No one would choose to walk from the Loop to O'Hare carrying luggage (and of course, some people can't walk).

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#144

Post by nickik »

ComradeTaco wrote: post #94
nickik wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of having Boring Company pay for the construction and then reap the profits strikes me as a really great idea. We could do what all normal business does for infrastructure. Revolutionary idea. But it is a good idea. Often private mass transportation is illegal. This seems to be a hybrid model, I don't quite understand what this project entails in terms of obligations by both sides. The downsides might be t…

There is also the possibility that a poorly engineered or rushed tunnel could destablize the foundations of structures above.

Extremly unlikely with such a small tunnel that goes fairly deep under the earth.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#145

Post by mlindner »

peatmoss wrote: post #118
apeace wrote: post #74

The idea of having Boring Company pay for the construction and then reap the profits strikes me as a really great idea. When the government pays for construction, the contractors don't have a strong incentive to actually finish the project. They'll keep getting paid no matter how long it runs over or how over-budget it goes. But in this situation, Boring Co won't make any money unless and until they get it up and run…

It's worth noting that public-private-partnerships can lead to some perverse situations that are pretty antithetical to democratically-led governance. Companies that build the infrastructure typically have expectations around revenues in the long run. Very frequently there are provisions built in that prevent governments from turning around and building other infrastructure that competes with the privately operated i…

If it's so profitable then why didn't any other companies set up a competing line in the first place? The perversion happened long ago if the city prevented any competition from stepping in before the city finally decided to move.

In general companies are faster movers than governments in these types of things. If that didn't happen then something prevented them from being able to do so.

The corrupted politicians are to blame here for blocking other companies from competing, not the business.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#146

Post by peatmoss »

mlindner wrote: post #145
peatmoss wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that public-private-partnerships can lead to some perverse situations that are pretty antithetical to democratically-led governance. Companies that build the infrastructure typically have expectations around revenues in the long run. Very frequently there are provisions built in that prevent governments from turning around and building other infrastructure that competes with the privately operated i…

If it's so profitable then why didn't any other companies set up a competing line in the first place? The perversion happened long ago if the city prevented any competition from stepping in before the city finally decided to move. In general companies are faster movers than governments in these types of things. If that didn't happen then something prevented them from being able to do so. The corrupted politicians are…

Generally cities prevent people from building infrastructure willy nilly. Buldozing houses or seizing public land for a new highway isn’t something that companies are allowed to do... I’d posit for good reason.

Typically P3 agreements are initiated by government and promised revenue exclusivity is the incentive to build.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#147

Post by kevinmchugh »

ben_w wrote: post #138
kevinmchugh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People die pretty regularly when elevator doors open before the car has arrived. Elevator doors that don't open unless a car is there are a major safety feature.

“regularly” ⇏ (P(accident|all elevator use)»0)

by regularly I mean it's multiple stories every week on the industry podcast: http://www.elevatorradioshow.com/blog/2018/6/13/elevator-rad...

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#148

Post by cornholio »

mlindner wrote: post #145
peatmoss wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that public-private-partnerships can lead to some perverse situations that are pretty antithetical to democratically-led governance. Companies that build the infrastructure typically have expectations around revenues in the long run. Very frequently there are provisions built in that prevent governments from turning around and building other infrastructure that competes with the privately operated i…

If it's so profitable then why didn't any other companies set up a competing line in the first place? The perversion happened long ago if the city prevented any competition from stepping in before the city finally decided to move. In general companies are faster movers than governments in these types of things. If that didn't happen then something prevented them from being able to do so. The corrupted politicians are…

The private sector is not a fast mover in infrastructure. It's the prototype public good, where the gains are vastly redistributed to society rather than being easy to isolate into a transaction. A road not only reduces your travel time from point A to B, a service worth $C to you. But also enables economic activity along it's path, makes it possible for you to get a job in B in the first place, etc. and all these are worth a large multiple (N * $C) for which nobody can be charged.

The net effect is that there is drastic under-investment from the private sector compared to the needs or the economic potential of a society with good infrastructure.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#149

Post by ben_w »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #147
ben_w wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“regularly” ⇏ (P(accident|all elevator use)»0)

by regularly I mean it's multiple stories every week on the industry podcast: http://www.elevatorradioshow.com/blog/2018/6/13/elevator-rad...

No doubt, yet not my point. Out of interest, are you familiar with the Availability Heuristic? It’s something I find challenging to think around even when I spot it affecting my perception of likelihoods.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#150

Post by rohit2412 »

jandrese wrote: post #139
rohit2412 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so unrealistic? For example, this line in Mumbai metro ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_3_(Mumbai_Metro) ), with 34 km of big tunnels and 27 stations is supposed to cost 3.4 billion. Surely, Chicago's 25-30 km line with just two stations (one sort of half built already) and smaller tunnels won't cost so much.

Two things. 1 is that they're planning to use a lot of cut and cover which is a lot cheaper but more disruptive. 2 is that the project isn't complete yet so those final cost figures are still fiction.

No, only the stations are cut and cover. They have ordered 17 tbm for the tunnels.

About the cost estimate, I don't have any other completely underground metro line in a developing country to compare. But Is it the labor costs in developed countries?

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