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FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

arstechnica.com

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Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#111

Post by fapjacks »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #103
boomboomsubban wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what their preferred phone was at the time, but they were unwilling to go through the same effort for the Secretary of State, instead offering her a choice of non-BlackBerry phones.

Which is absurd, a SOS is mobile far more than a President by nature.

I think the importance of this cannot be understated. The Secretary of State is a nexus of not only extremely sensitive information, but of extremely sensitive information in motion which is also in overseas locations more often than not. If I were into tradecraft, I'd be much more likely to target the Secretary of State than the President for access to (relevant, valuable) sensitive information.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#112

Post by fapjacks »

scruple wrote: post #89
warent wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside: wow that timeline makes me feel really old

Yeah, I had the same reaction. This sort of stuff makes me _feel old_. But I'm not actually "old," so what gives?

That's the trap, and Seneca wrote some compelling stuff about recognizing the trap and avoiding it. It is aptly titled "On the Shortness of Life"...

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#113

Post by NicoJuicy »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #83
zacharycohn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check your timelines. Obama was elected in 2008, and BlackBerry was the dominant player in the market at that point. Also, he DID swap out his phone for a secured one, and his staff instituted a number of security protocols to keep it secure.

A dominant player, yet Obama needed a special highly modified version to securely access the White House network. A huge amount of work to keep using what he was comfortable with.

But he did use it secure, not like Trump

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#114

Post by catamorphismic »

StudentStuff wrote: post #14
ipsum2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used Whatsapp or Signal, but you don't login every time you use the chat app, right? The phone could have just been unlocked by the owner or the PIN or pattern guessed, assuming the keys are stored on the device.

They are very different platforms, Signal offers on-device encryption if you choose to enable it, prompting for a password when starting Signal after rebooting the phone. It will also keep a quick lock option in the menu on Android phones so you can easily prevent unauthorized access. I believe Whatsapp has made a few compromises in this regard, but obviously Michael Cohen didn't bother to use disappearing messages i…

This is a common misconception apparently, one that I've fallen prey to myself in the past. Signal removed the option to use the password lock and now uses Android's built-in lock screen functionality to provide auth.

That screen was never meant to serve an encryption role and Moxie recommends using Android's full disk encryption feature to ensure data confidentiality at rest.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#115

Post by paganel »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #87
mirimir wrote: post #47

Damn, you'd think that someone at that level would pay for better OPSEC support. But then, I guess that I'm not surprised. Blackberry does have a reputation, not at all deserved at this point. I'm pretty sure that the President's phone is just as poorly secured. Probably less, from what I've read.

>>Damn, you'd think that someone at that level would pay for better OPSEC support I think that he thought himself as untouchable and neglected it. Maybe dodged so many bullets over the years. Question for HN: did the FBI break the Signal encryption or just managed to open his device to find all the messages there? Maybe sensitive messages need to be deleted.

> did the FBI break the Signal encryption or just managed to open his device to find all the messages there? Maybe sensitive messages need to be deleted.

I’m also interested in the answer to this question. From my layman’s understanding I see Signal as the most secure messaging solution out of the box, followed by WhatsApp but only if (and it’s a very big if) you don’t plan to do something that might raise the interest of a US 3-letter agency (i.e. you can use WhatsApp for random political corruption cases in European countries, like the politicians from my country do, but it’s not safe to use it if you plan to actively cross the interests of those 3-letter agencies). Telegram I also see as compromised by the Russian secret services, ignoring all the recent public brouhaha.

If anyone more knowledgeable has other views on this please feel free to correct me.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#116

Post by boomboomsubban »

los_angeles wrote: post #108
boomboomsubban wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dominant player, yet Obama needed a special highly modified version to securely access the White House network. A huge amount of work to keep using what he was comfortable with.

Which makes complete sense. He is the most powerful individual in a country of 300+ million people. If he needs a certain thing to keep him operating at peak efficiency and focus, he gets that thing. Period. Unless it violates national security. Being elected president is not the time to learn a new technology suite. Hopefully most presidents have better things to do with their time than that. At that level your peop…

>Being elected president is not the time to learn a new technology suite. Hopefully most presidents have better things to do with their time than that.

At what level does this stop being a waste of time for the person?

I'm not suggesting Obama should have been forced to change, but every else in his administration was forced to change. There's some serious clashing between the need for secure devices and the reluctance to change from old technology.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#117

Post by joemaller1 »

michaelchisari wrote: post #79
gpm wrote: post #51

Signal encryption relies on a password (last I used it, which was a long time ago). Typing long random passwords in a phone is nothing if not impractical. It wouldn't shock me to find out they just brute forced the password.

Or found a sticky with the password on it when they raided his office.

Most likely scenario.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#118

Post by bilbo0s »

ohtwenty wrote: post #101
bilbo0s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...Cohen's messages were stored on iCloud..." ??? Your comment had me struggling to determine how one could store WhatsApp messages on iCloud. (From a Blackberry no less.) But then I followed your link. I don't think that article was about Cohen. You may want to change your post. On an equally important note, why is it that people out there assume that ANY form of electronic communication is impervious from governme…

>On an equally important note, why is it that people out there assume that ANY form of electronic communication is impervious from government surveillance? The reality is that if a three letter agency is after you, it's probably unwise to be using WhatsApp and Signal in an incriminating fashion. (Or anything else for that matter.) Signal has a feature for self-destroying messages (on-read, or after x amount of time).…

Point is that the messages still have to go over the public networks, so if three letter agencies have you under surveillance, you should assume they're gonna get everything you're saying. You should NOT just say, "well, I'm using encryption so I'm golden."

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#119

Post by kasey_junk »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #94
kasey_junk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose we are now very much into personal bias. Mine suggests that until very recently working as a personal lawyer for a reality star & planning for the “normal” security concerns therein wouldn’t be something high end firms would do (nor things lawyers would ask for) as a matter of course. Remember by the time the feds come knocking it’s too late.

Leave bias aside for a second: Trump (before election) is a high profile person, he does have a huge business with hundreds /thousands of employees and is worth at least billions. To want security is not just normal but a super smart move. If they pay, why wouldn't the top OPSEC companies tell them how to secure their devices? (Reading might do 99% of work though)

The billions number has always been in dispute, but I’m not suggesting he couldn’t pay some hypothetical person. I’m suggesting his roladex doesn’t have a specific person to call to do this & without this how do you get it done?

I disagree with the assertion that reading gets the job done. He was using signal. He read something about encrypted messaging.

When the feds came calling it wasn’t enough. You need highly specialized skills.

Re: FBI Recovers WhatsApp, Signal Data Stored on Michael Cohen’s BlackBerry

#120

Post by untog »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #116
los_angeles wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes complete sense. He is the most powerful individual in a country of 300+ million people. If he needs a certain thing to keep him operating at peak efficiency and focus, he gets that thing. Period. Unless it violates national security. Being elected president is not the time to learn a new technology suite. Hopefully most presidents have better things to do with their time than that. At that level your peop…

>Being elected president is not the time to learn a new technology suite. Hopefully most presidents have better things to do with their time than that. At what level does this stop being a waste of time for the person? I'm not suggesting Obama should have been forced to change, but every else in his administration was forced to change. There's some serious clashing between the need for secure devices and the reluctan…

I think it's fair to ask what the secure alternative platform was. I wouldn't be surprised if it was five years out of date and barely functional. I think the President ought to be able to say "this is crap, improve it".
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