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Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

nytimes.com

281–290 of 494 posts

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#281
Because it's not legal to even ask about pregnancy or desire for children during an interview, there's an unfortunate side-effect the market has adapted to: under-the-hood discrimination against young woman candidates.

All other factors being equal, an employer knows a young woman could get pregnant and will probably quit to take care of the kids (going by statistics alone). So since they can't explicitly ask those things, the market prices in the risk by devaluing woman candidates in every legal way possible.

It's downright insidious.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something that has always nagged at me in these discussions, and I've always been somewhat afraid to bring it up lest I misconstrue, but I want to try and figure this out. What's a state of affairs we can reach such that people don't become preemptively discriminatory for lack of being able to examine factors that would impact workplace performance? We agree, societally, that we shouldn't discriminate against…

> However, we don't live in a world where a business is spared the cost incurred by that. We also live in a world where the stock market ceases to exist if there isn’t a new generation of consumers and workers. (Facebook’s stock price is predicated on the idea that 1 years from now there will still be young people to advertise to.) Children create internalized costs (to parents, to businesses that hire parents), but…

But there's still a new generation of consumers and workers if only one company discriminates and everyone else plays fair.

Every company just thinks it gets to be that one company. It's a classic tragedy of the commons scenario.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#283

It's not just women that experience discrimination. When my wife was pregnant and I let our CEO and co-founder know (small company, Not long after letting them know about the pregnancy/birth, I found a suspicious/hidden hiring post from the CEO for a position that mirrored mine although we were "not hiring". Within the next month or two I had a few suspicious interactions with the cofounder over things he'd like to s…

Love hearing companies get their comeuppance. Happy to hear things worked out, hope thing are going well with your family.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in an incestuous industry like tech, you will be blacklisted in many circles for going down this path.

Those situations can often be solved in much the same way. If someone is giving out malicious references due to an enforcement action, you report it to the EEOC or other agencies. That is also a violation and can result in further action on your behalf. Many states have statutes on the books against blacklisting and you may be able to engage the state DOL or other agencies to help you. These agencies have the full we…

Nobody needs to give out malicious references when everyone just does lunch with everyone else.

Silicon Valley is a small place.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's a concrete example of the types of problems existencebox is highlighting: My sister was laid off from her employer of 8 years 3 months after her first child was born. She was a top performer, and they'd been throwing raises and bonuses at her before she got pregnant. Over the same year or so (there were 3-4 rounds of layoffs), every single pregnant woman or mother with kids under 2 that she knew at the comp…

It is free to file a discrimination complaint with the EEOC if you are in the US. They will investigate your claims and attempt to settle them with your employer. If your employer is unwilling to settle they can and do often sue on your behalf to ensure an equitable outcome. Additionally the Department of Labor will investigate your claims and can bring enforcement actions on your behalf. Additionally pregnancy is co…

This is not true. If you're an employee actually brave enough to pursue a discrimination a complaint with the EEOC understand that you will be blacklisted and/or subject to retaliation by various firms (not just your immediate employer). EEOC understands that retaliation is rampant [1] but America's very pro-business courts have made it impossible to prove in court. It is hardly "free" and certainly not recommended for most employees to pursue an EEOC complaint.

[1] https://www.bna.com/eeoc-ponders-ways-n17179928871/

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#286
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife interviewed at Google and was asked how she'd be able to meet the requirements of the job while taking care of young children; the discrimination persists even after pregnancy.

There's something that has always nagged at me in these discussions, and I've always been somewhat afraid to bring it up lest I misconstrue, but I want to try and figure this out. What's a state of affairs we can reach such that people don't become preemptively discriminatory for lack of being able to examine factors that would impact workplace performance? We agree, societally, that we shouldn't discriminate against…

It's stories like these that makes me thank God my wife (and mother to a 1.5 year old) doesn't work in tech. In her field of pharma there isn't a stigma associated with women of child-bearing age and when they announce they're pregnant.

What a field we're in when ranked output is all that matters at the cost of being human with human needs. I needed a kid as much as my wife. I guess I shouldn't expect any different by a field dominated by a bunch of male douchey autists.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in an incestuous industry like tech, you will be blacklisted in many circles for going down this path.

Those situations can often be solved in much the same way. If someone is giving out malicious references due to an enforcement action, you report it to the EEOC or other agencies. That is also a violation and can result in further action on your behalf. Many states have statutes on the books against blacklisting and you may be able to engage the state DOL or other agencies to help you. These agencies have the full we…

Blacklisting is typically done covertly though.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#288
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they found out? Did they ask?

They asked about the resume gap from when she had our kids.

Oh, that's different, IIUC, if an employer asks about a history gap, and the candidate volunteers the information "I had kids," they can take that into account.

The system's broken.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#289
Don't bite my head off, but is that really discrimination in the sense of what word actually means?

If you're literally not PRESENT to do the work, is that really a case of the employer discriminating against you? It's a privilege, not a right, to be paid to be at home taking care of a child.

I grew up in an area where a lot of discrimination occurred, but it was racially motivated. I've seen guys smarter than me literally chased out of stores, had fingers pointed at them while obscene slurs are shouted at them. I've seen brilliant minds that get trapped in the ""wrong"" bodies. They get caught in the wrong environment around the wrong people, and the stress and danger of it all breaks them down. I've seen racism obliterate men that could've been ANYTHING, rocket scientists or something, if they could've had the luck to have been born a different color or live in a different neighborhood.

So, from that perspective it's a bit mind-boggling that women will choose to pursue children and for some reason expect their employer to just pay them to be at home, while they aren't completing any work.

Of course it's important to be with your child early on. So do that. But is it really important that your employer pay for work you didn't do? That is something that I believe lies on the shoulders of government, not industry.

(And personally, I don't think govts should provide funding for it either, but that's for each nation to determine, and also cultures can be very different. It might not work here, but it may work over there.)

Nobody owes you anything because you went and got pregnant. Nobody should attack you for doing so, either. But to turn around and think that you are somehow ENTITLED to wages and compensation for that time is absolutely insane.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very much the wrong person for you to recruit in an attempt to apply the axiomatic method to discrimination laws. Discriminating against pregnant women is wrong because it's wrong, full stop.

Your statement of "recruit" is exactly the sort of misconstruction I was hoping to avoid. threatofrain got it right. This is a problem we need to address, but the solutions I've seen thus far don't take unfortunate pathologies of human psychology into account, and when we don't do that, we get very surprised at the lack of results down the line. You're more than willing to try to live in a world where you say "Becaus…

I'm super confused at what you recommend needs changing. The law against pregnancy discrimination exists, but because it's easy to circumvent you want something stricter? Or you want the gov't to subsidize it?
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