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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#241

Post by dmfdmf »

maxxxxx wrote: post #151
api wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The short answer is her Jobs-like "reality distortion field" -- she was exceedingly good at convincing ... Considering this and the lack of substance behind her claims, I would personally bet money that she is a clinical psychopath. The most disturbing thing I have ever observed about human beings is our tendency to follow psychopaths. Psychopaths seem to have this gravity around them and people just fall into line…

I remember reading that a lot of CEOs and generally people in leadership positions have psychopathic traits. This probably is an asset if it's balanced by other traits.

I'd take those articles with a huge grain of salt. How could you distinguish a CEO with the courage to make an unpopular choice (e.g. layoff 1/3 of the workforce to save the company) -vs- a psychopath who does it to inflict suffering on others or to just establish dominance? How do you even measure psychopathic traits without defining exactly what "psychopathy" means and a rational ethic by which to judge the non-psychopaths (i.e. the "control group" or standard of normal)? Moreover, motive is not irrelevant to the question and not only is it not measurable by researchers, most people don't even know their own subconscious motives.

I'd bet if you dug into the research what you'd find is the research really shows that psychologists who study such things do not have the character/psychology of those who become CEOs, not that they are psychopaths.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#242

Post by verulito »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

Those kinds of business plans were typical of that era and venture capitalists were accustomed to investing in lofty dreams. Naturally, it didn't pan out most of the time and they've gotten smarter. Theranos managed to outlive most of their peers, it seems by turning to deception instead. From my reading, it seems that the failures are old but the crimes are recent.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#243

Post by lord_ring_11 »

mhneu wrote: post #238

Excellent news for American society. “The Chickenshit Club” by Eisinger recently explained why the lack of criminal charges had emboldened white collar crime. Basically, individuals need to have the risk of criminal charges if they do something very egregious - they need to have skin in the game. The US Justice Dept has in the past two decades largely only been fining corporations. And so companies estimate risk and…

Amen. The risk reward is crazily skewed towards breaking law. Most relying on ethics and social pressure.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#244

Post by jason_slack »

Anybody have a link that talk about Holmes, personality, career, why she is special, etc. I have heard she is referred to as the next Steve Jobs...

Actually this has enough info for most people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#246

Post by hawkice »

jason_slack wrote: post #244

Anybody have a link that talk about Holmes, personality, career, why she is special, etc. I have heard she is referred to as the next Steve Jobs... Actually this has enough info for most people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

Steve Jobs definitely wasn't engaged in criminal fraud, so the prosecutor will definitely be trying to demonstrate she wasn't "the next Steve Jobs". Given what we know we should hear that prosecutors' argument.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#247

Post by jason_slack »

hawkice wrote: post #246
jason_slack wrote: post #244

Anybody have a link that talk about Holmes, personality, career, why she is special, etc. I have heard she is referred to as the next Steve Jobs... Actually this has enough info for most people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

Steve Jobs definitely wasn't engaged in criminal fraud, so the prosecutor will definitely be trying to demonstrate she wasn't "the next Steve Jobs". Given what we know we should hear that prosecutors' argument.

Why the down vote, she is referred to as the next Steve Jobs: https://mashable.com/2018/03/14/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-se...

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#249

Post by delbel »

mhneu wrote: post #238

Excellent news for American society. “The Chickenshit Club” by Eisinger recently explained why the lack of criminal charges had emboldened white collar crime. Basically, individuals need to have the risk of criminal charges if they do something very egregious - they need to have skin in the game. The US Justice Dept has in the past two decades largely only been fining corporations. And so companies estimate risk and…

I was hoping the bankers can still be charged under the Patriot act, there is a provision for something to the effet threat to cause financial risk or damage if I remember. Paulson made a direct threat of financial doom if there was no bailout to President Bush. I think there is a way we can declare them enemy combatants and send them to gitmo for their trial. Sorry for typos, typing with a bad finger the last few days.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#250

Post by mhneu »

atombender wrote: post #93
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

This interview with John Carreyrou [1], the Wall Street Journal journalist who is largely responsible for exposing Theranos, goes into a lot of detail. It's long, so if you want a shorter answer, jump to the question "What technology did Theranos actually develop?": Basically there were three iterations of the technology. The first one used microfluidics, which are basically the repurposing of the micro-fabrication t…

There’s one other REALLY important reason why Holmes was able to raise money. Remember venture firms with blood test knowledge like Google V were turning her down.

Holmes was close family friends with George Schultz, and that allowed her to do two things. First, get a bunch of military and government guys on the board. And second, sell to the military.

That was Theranos’ real ace in the hole. Holmes knew top military brass and they were going to give her military contracts to test soldiers’ blood. We don’t know what she was telling investors, exactly, but that seems like a real source of revenue investors would care about.

Carreyrou describes how it was a mid level DoD employee that screwed up the plan - he looked at the data and scuttled the contract even though the generals wanted to award it to Theranos. Hat tip to hard working, honest govt employees.

Board and Schultz details: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/hershshefr...

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