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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

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Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#311

Post by mistermann »

watertom wrote: post #269
paloaltokid wrote: post #250

A family member who's been an electrical engineer for many decades made an interesting observation: the United States industrialized China. When labor got too expensive in the US, manufacturing moved overseas. Capital became available in China to build and build and build because they knew that American business wouldn't be able to resist the competitive pricing. I still remember overhearing my engineer family member…

It's even worse. In order to do business U.S. companies had to partner with a Chinese company, and U.S. compnay willingly transfered their IP to their Chinese partner, their Chinese partner then transferred that IP to their partner. the Chinese Government, who then transferred the IP to any other Chinese company that could benefit from the IP. That's how the U.S. supercharged China'a manufacturing while simultaneousl…

It's absolutely bizarre how almost no one seems to realize this.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#312

Post by will_brown »

dang wrote: post #245
will_brown wrote: post #145

Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point and ask... What do you manufacture? Would you be interested in a startup that offered you a waiver of these tariffs? My prior point was you will start seeing start ups pop up left and right offering “tariff free imports/importing for US manufacturers as a service”. Somehow that is controversial enough to be downvoted withou…

> Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point Please don't hijack HN threads that way. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320879 .

Notwithstanding that explanation of a double post you quoted, I didn’t intend to highjack, my comment is about the ability for manufacturers, such as OP I replied to, being able to avoid paying tariffs on component parts which OP’s top post is specificallu about.

It also seemed relevant to mention the original comment being downvoted (without any replies) in an entire thread where no one else mentions the ability for manufacturers to avoid these types of tariffs.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#314

Post by ravitation »

robotbikes wrote: post #308
ravitation wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers need new jobs, most likely in new industries. That's how it's always worked. But a coal miner learning a new skill/new skills is a lot harder for him than just getting his old coal mining job back... Unfortunately one of those (well maybe both of them) isn't going to happen. This is just as true for steel manufacturing.

But is this supposed to go on ad infinitum ? What if at some point the new jobs created are worse than the jobs that were lost ? Does everyone in the US need to have a so-called service job or else be an information worker ? And to what end l so that cheaper items can result in more conspicuous consumption to fuel the accumulation of wealth by those who are lucky enough to own stock and the companies that are profiti…

> But is this supposed to go on ad infinitum?

Yes... That's how technological progress works? Countless millions of jobs were lost during the Industrial Revolution, but in there place were new jobs often requiring new (and more) skills. The pace of that turnover has been increasing since the invention of the wheel, one problem now is that we've crossed a threshold where the rate of change is no longer intergenerational but intragenerational.

> I don't know if there is some kind of steady state sustainable economy where enough people have meaningful productive outlets (aka jobs w/o coercive bosses) and we as humans are not extracting or destroying more of the non-human planetary resources than can easily be renewed.

This doesn't exist and has never existed; it's only that the rate of change has come to a point where it's now easily perceived (and financially felt). I would even argue it will never, and should never exist. Should we lessen the impact that this rate of change can have on people's lives? Yes, with better access to social services and education. Should we lessen the impact that the global economy has on the environment? Yes. Should we strive towards some steady, and therefore stagnant, equilibrium? No, absolutely not.

Anyway, the point is that every small bit of technological progress fundamentally changes the economy and that inevitably changes what jobs are needed. Jobs are created and destroyed, it's the nature of progress.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#315

Post by keo93ndn »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #201
kinsomo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down > Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you take to accomplish that?

What's with this "rebuild the American manufacturing base" part? The US is already one of the top manufacturers in the world.

We make “a lot of” a few things

What the US lacks is an ability to spin up new manufacturing in the way China can

https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-...

People that work in manufacturing in America are better described as “assemblers”

The skills to design and “ship” new manufacturing process do not exist here. A dictatorship invested in skills training, with the help of American government (there’s a paper trail in government records leading back to Reagan PAYING to export manufacturing. Not just tax breaks but giving cash money to invest in building new overseas; cause supply side demanded it. I’ll leave it to the reader to investigate under their own agency).

IMO Tesla is leading a revival here, or at least trying to. Cars and their battery/solar work is what people see them as: bleeding edge energy and manufacturing

Wall Street seems to think they’re just a car company. Which is, again IMO, what people shorting Tesla are confused about

People with a clue realize it isn’t just cars and battery pack sales alone

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#316

Post by garettmd »

joezydeco wrote: post #220
rsynnott wrote: post #27

> It includes a broad range of components used in electronics manufacturing, specifically naming touchscreens, batteries, and electric motors. General components like transistors are also named on the list as well as more specific components used in televisions, cameras, and radio receivers. [..] Notably, the list does not include cellphones or completed televisions. So, this will, er, serve to discourage companies f…

Any coincidence that Foxconn is building a large display factory in Wisconsin?

I think that's been in the works for a while, long before any of this tariff talk has been happening. Might have been before trump came into office, but I can't remember for sure

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#317

Post by aoeusnth1 »

canjobear wrote: post #227

For the anti-protectionists: Can you direct me to extensive empirical evidence that protectionist policies are harmful in the medium to long term? I often hear that Asian countries have followed protectionist policies for decades, and they seem to be doing well. Norway is also highly protectionist at least with regard to agriculture and as far as I know they have achieved their desired results. When does it work and…

Look up Smoot-Holly.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#318

Post by mistermann »

curiousgal wrote: post #256
kinsomo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (a) does not harm China, as intended, as they are still the only viable place to purchase these items, yet (b) actively harms business in the United States, as we are paying the additional cost ourselves. There's an important qualification: that's probably only true in the short or medium term . I believe the goal is that the higher cost would produce economic space for competitors to enter the market. Ironically,…

>that's probably only true in the short or medium term Exactly, except there is no long term because the following administration will undo all of what the current one has done.

Citation?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#319

Post by aiiie »

mreome wrote: post #190
rsynnott wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They assemble Mac Pros in the US. They've also apparently been considering assembling some other stuff in the US; I assume those plans have come to a screeching halt.

Thanks for the clarification. As you say though, this will likely stop further domestic assembly operations from being established. It will be business as usual for the big players who do assembly in China, the rest will be encouraged to move them back there. In no way does this seem like it could have the intended effect.

Could this policy actually be the result of Chinese politicians and/or businesspeople engaging in pay-for-play with Trump?

Or is there another explanation for why this policy doesn’t affect certain completed products from China? I just don’t get that part of it at all.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#320

Post by keo93ndn »

kinsomo wrote: post #183
keo93ndn wrote: post #179

You’re considered a consumer of the things this targets Their real concern is protecting the supply side folks. Basically themselves You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down Because no one in this admin has a damn clue Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this The ignorant are shooting themselves in…

> You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down > Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you take to accomplish that?

Train people to do more than screw hubcaps on.

https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-...

Skip to the bottom for the quote about being able to fill a football stadium with Chinese tooling experts

Versus not being able to fill a room in the US

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