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Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

arstechnica.com

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Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#211
post #15

intellectual property shouldn't exist.

Intellectual property done right puts bread on the table of many researchers and engineers and is arguably a protection agains't direct Chinese theft. That being said, Google is really turning into a monster at this point with all their patents on random algorithms.

Those are two terrible arguments.

> Intellectual property done right puts bread on the table of many researchers and engineers

The same can be said for any number of things; just because you can make money doing it does not mean it is defensible to do it simply because of that reason. It is a non-argument.

> and is arguably a protection agains't direct Chinese theft.

That is called begging the question. If intellectual property did not exist, “theft” would not be theft, and nobody would create a business which would depend on it existing.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, an almost universal trait of human languages is that they include redundancies for error correction. Reread the post the OP is replying to and then read the OP’s comment.

Thanks, Sheldon.

Seriously, let me know if I can help you understand—I’m not sure why you are getting so upset about this.

I apologize if I’ve somehow got you on a bad day and if this is not your usual self.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#213
post #129
post #108

Read this reaction from xiphmont: https://xiphmont.dreamwidth.org/84214.html It paints a quite different picture.

This comes off as rather dismissive. Xiphmont simultaneously claims that Jarek's work is useless ("the performance claims just don't hold up") and that Google needs a defensive patent on it. As someone on encode.ru pointed out, "if Google genuinely wanted this as a defensive patent, then the right approach is to work with Jarek and pay for him to file a patent on ANS itself blocking as many of the spin-off patents as…

Not useless, just not as good as Jarek liked to claim. It's a neat technique but hardly a breakthrough. In the end, for AV1, Daala_EC was better.

As for 'needed a defensive patent', need is the wrong word. In the current patent game, you pile up defensive patents to be used in aggregate as part of a MAD-style game. It sounds insane and it is-- but it's also currently the least insane option.

In any case, Google isn't technically in the wrong here. They're not patenting jarek's work, they're patenting improvements they made to it that were necessary to use it in AV1, which they dedicated engineers to do because Jarek declined to do it himself. Only after Google put in that work (and implemented multiple suggested improvements on top of it to try to bring its performance up) could we even measure the results.

But just because Google isn't wrong, doesn't mean they weren't assholes. Having negotiated with them for things in the past, they will promise the moon and the sun and the sky, and commit only to the parts that get them what they want. I can fully believe they verbally promised Jarek far more than he got.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#214
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comes off as rather dismissive. Xiphmont simultaneously claims that Jarek's work is useless ("the performance claims just don't hold up") and that Google needs a defensive patent on it. As someone on encode.ru pointed out, "if Google genuinely wanted this as a defensive patent, then the right approach is to work with Jarek and pay for him to file a patent on ANS itself blocking as many of the spin-off patents as…

> "the performance claims just don't hold up" see now the fatcs in https://sites.google.com/site/powturbo/entropy-coder and how rANS based entropy coder outperforms the current AOMedia AV1 entropy coder by 7 times.

Put it in AV1 and it doesn't.

The entropy coder in AV1 right now is Daala_EC. It's the entropy coder because we measured it directly against rANS and the other candidate encoders and it performed the best.

Hell, you can check out the code, build with the different entropy coders, and test it yourself.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#215
post #108

Read this reaction from xiphmont: https://xiphmont.dreamwidth.org/84214.html It paints a quite different picture.

> So my action item for Jarek is: ... Find a friend with a big bag of weed, and take a few days off. It's not just condescending, it's simply offensive.

Because Jarek is frankly out of line, and I see no reason to sugarcoat it.

Google pissed him off (and I'm sure he has reason to be pissed) but he's not exactly being truthful about what happened, or what is happening.

Being angry at Big Bad Company for a good reason does not give an engineer license to bend the truth any damn way he feels, and it certainly doesn't give license to just make shit up. He's lost some of my respect for a good reason, and if an Avengers reference offends him (or you) it's not my problem.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the performance claims just don't hold up" see now the fatcs in https://sites.google.com/site/powturbo/entropy-coder and how rANS based entropy coder outperforms the current AOMedia AV1 entropy coder by 7 times.

Put it in AV1 and it doesn't. The entropy coder in AV1 right now is Daala_EC. It's the entropy coder because we measured it directly against rANS and the other candidate encoders and it performed the best. Hell, you can check out the code, build with the different entropy coders, and test it yourself.

Already done. The claims are not based on speculations, but on numbers coming from verifiable benchmarks with "https://github.com/powturbo/TurboBench" including the Daala_EC and the AOM AV1 entropy coder.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#217
post #108

Read this reaction from xiphmont: https://xiphmont.dreamwidth.org/84214.html It paints a quite different picture.

What is this? Is xiphmont a Google or Mozilla employee who works on AV1? He's wildly unprofessional, especially all the profanity and the advice to smoke a bag of weed.
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