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Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

nytimes.com

71–80 of 494 posts

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pensions are a pyramid scheme? I don't think the world can bear the exponential population growth required.

You neglect the technological progress. It will be cheaper for you to retire as pleasantly as the boomers, despite having less money.

This is a fallacy because there isnt some level of comfort people want to hit to comfortably retire, it will always be relative to the society around them.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#72
post #55

This area is really tough. I feel terrible for women who experience this bias, but the solution is not nearly as obvious as with race/gender/age/religious/etc discrimination. In those cases the answer is: stop being biased. Let's say you're a small company and you can really only afford to have Even if they both plan to have 2 kids in the next 4 years, it's a biological reality that it will take the woman away from w…

Thought experiment: would it still be a (meaningful) difference if the father would get the same leave as the mother?

It would hinder the employment for anyone, regardless of gender, who expects to have children.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#73
post #14

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take seve…

> After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take severance and leave. How does this also not result in expensive lawsuit.

Possibly. We were/are lucky in that we both have good job prospects and plenty of opportunities to pursue, at the time we just wanted to enjoy our family time and the last thing we wanted is to engage in a legal battle. I'm sure we could've gotten more out of it had we wanted it (at least financially), not sure if same can be said for the time and energy put in though.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#74
post #55

This area is really tough. I feel terrible for women who experience this bias, but the solution is not nearly as obvious as with race/gender/age/religious/etc discrimination. In those cases the answer is: stop being biased. Let's say you're a small company and you can really only afford to have Even if they both plan to have 2 kids in the next 4 years, it's a biological reality that it will take the woman away from w…

"So while I'd like to force the startup to make the decision without considering this factor, is that always reasonable?"

I believe it is. As a society, we've decided that being able to continue the population is more important than the fortunes of any particular startup.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#75
post #14

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take seve…

My wife interviewed at Google and was asked how she'd be able to meet the requirements of the job while taking care of young children; the discrimination persists even after pregnancy.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#76
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fathers can’t breastfeed.

You are giving a reason not to deny a mother time with a child, not a reason for a father to spend less. There is no "biological pressure" that forces fathers to go back to work. (as it happens, fathers can breastfeed, albeit not literally. Mothers can pump breastmilk for fathers to feed to the child, or they can use formula. It's a perfectly viable way to raise a child, and people do)

The fact that a factor in baby care taking (breastfeeding) is only possible for females creates a small bias in favor of female care taking. The factor is small, and can be mitigated with little (but not null) effort.

My point is that OPs argument holds some water. Notably, it suffices to support the statement 'women are more likely to want to be care-taker than men'. There remains an argument about magnitude, and compensating effects, but there is a difference.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me answer this with a counter-question. If you're pregnant and somehow hiding it really well, do you think it makes sense for you to job-hunting six weeks before you're due to give birth?

FUCK yes. Kids cost money. Jobs are how you get money. And I say this as someone who hired a woman who then told us she would give birth in two months, and we were fine.

Please excuse me if I'm being too flippant, but I'm trying to make a point here: Another way of making quick money is by robbing a bank. Just making the point here that your logic is lacking, not that pregnant women are bank robbbers.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#78
post #34

Is this really surprising? We cannot have meritocracy and a system where some people will go missing for a year at a time (and perhaps come back with completely different motivations). There is a fundamental mismatch, and as much as some people want to frame careers as lifestyle and entitlement, the primary purpose is to get things done and produce value. The situation is even more stark for smaller companies, many o…

"Unfunded Mandate": A too-seldom used term for this class of government policy failure. Legislatures decide it would be kind to help out some disadvantaged cohort, but don't want to dip into their own budget to pay for it, so they pass a law to make someone else pay case-by-case -- irrespective of ability to pay.

Results are as you say: evasion by the cynical, contempt for government among the honest, litigation by opportunists.

Other examples: "No Child Left Behind" Act, age discrimination and minimum wage laws.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#79

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

> One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. A better solution would just unpaid parental leave for both sexes, with a stipend paid for by the government. The idea of paying people some percentage of their salary while on parental leave is an incredibly regressive policy and should be banned.

How is it regressive that compensation during parental leave depends on salary? Without that, women higher in the career ladder are disincentivized from taking maternity leave. Moreover, you might even get women who earn more on leave than during the job, which is simply weird.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me answer this with a counter-question. If you're pregnant and somehow hiding it really well, do you think it makes sense for you to job-hunting six weeks before you're due to give birth?

FUCK yes. Kids cost money. Jobs are how you get money. And I say this as someone who hired a woman who then told us she would give birth in two months, and we were fine.

Wow, that sounds like straight up fraud to me. Do companies in America get financial support from the government for employees on pregnancy leave?
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