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For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

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Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#131

Post by s1300045 »

cameldrv wrote: post #126

If I were the mayor of Chicago, I'd take that money and spend it at the airport itself. This line shaves 25 minutes off the travel time for a fairly small subset of people. The gains to be made at the airport are far greater. I get there 25 minutes faster, only to spend the next hour screwing around at the airport. If we: 1. Staffed security such that there was never a line, 2. Staffed the ticket counter such that th…

This is supposedly fully funded by the Boring Company. No tax money will be put in the project. At least that's what they are saying.

The $8.5 billion O’Hare Airport expansion project is approved and underway, and it is also funded by the airlines via issuing bonds. Supposedly, no tax money will be involved either.

Block 37 is also designed to serve as a downtown "terminal". Passengers will go through security and check in luggages before they board the trains.

I don't know the regulations, but installing double ended jet bridges doesn't sound that easy to me. It's probably something FAA has to approve. Staffing issues at the ticket counter and security is also outside of the mayor's jurisdiction. It's decided by the airlines themselves, TSA, and the organization that runs the O'hare airport.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#132

Post by sandworm101 »

jcranmer wrote: post #122
koverda wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with you. If this project manages to reduce the cost per mile of building public transportation, the public as a whole will benefit greatly in the years to come. I'm not rich and I would love there to be many more subway lines built out in our cities. It's the Tesla Roadster of public transit: an expensive proving ground for a technology with a mass-market demand. I'd rather the government give br…

> If this project manages to reduce the cost per mile of building public transportation, the public as a whole will benefit greatly in the years to come. I'm not rich and I would love there to be many more subway lines built out in our cities. The purported cost savings are primarily coming from making the system as incompatible as possible with traditional subways (i.e., the proposed tunnels are too small to be refi…

>> 2,000 people an hour with no room for upgrades without boring more tunnels--on par with a single highway lane

2000 for a typical mixed-use highway lane. A dedicated/managed lane can move several times that number. 50-person buses at two per minute = 6000 people per hour. For sheer people moving potential, things like escalators and moving walkways actually do pretty good. They are just very slow.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#133

Post by RobLach »

neaden wrote: post #17
bonestamp2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. This is not true for everyone though. Business travelers take cabs between the loop and o'hare. So, $25 is actually faster and cheaper -- so it's a great use of their money! Even if it was more expensive than a cab, most business travelers would happily spend a little more of someone else's (company) money to get there faster.

Cabs get you right to the address you want to go though. This will still have the last mile problem.

For business travelers in Chicago the last mile problem from the middle of the loop is at worst a 10 minute walk.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#134

Post by zantana »

apeace wrote: post #74

The idea of having Boring Company pay for the construction and then reap the profits strikes me as a really great idea. When the government pays for construction, the contractors don't have a strong incentive to actually finish the project. They'll keep getting paid no matter how long it runs over or how over-budget it goes. But in this situation, Boring Co won't make any money unless and until they get it up and run…

It should be noted that Chicago doesn't exactly have a good track record on negotiating the details on these types of contracts.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chicago-to-pay-20-million-to-...

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#135

Post by jcranmer »

sandworm101 wrote: post #132
jcranmer wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this project manages to reduce the cost per mile of building public transportation, the public as a whole will benefit greatly in the years to come. I'm not rich and I would love there to be many more subway lines built out in our cities. The purported cost savings are primarily coming from making the system as incompatible as possible with traditional subways (i.e., the proposed tunnels are too small to be refi…

>> 2,000 people an hour with no room for upgrades without boring more tunnels--on par with a single highway lane 2000 for a typical mixed-use highway lane. A dedicated/managed lane can move several times that number. 50-person buses at two per minute = 6000 people per hour. For sheer people moving potential, things like escalators and moving walkways actually do pretty good. They are just very slow.

I should have clarified that 2,000 people an hour assumes ~100% single-occupant vehicles. This does tend to be the norm for highways, unless you're talking specifically about HOV lanes or dedicated bus lanes.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#136

Post by RobLach »

ant6n wrote: post #115
nickik wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you never have progress for rich people then you will never have much progress at all. Where will you build a revolutionary first transportation system for the masses? Literally every form of transport started as a luxury.

What about walking?

Ask the fish.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#137

Post by rohit2412 »

jandrese wrote: post #119
ComradeTaco wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, my bachelors was in civil engineering and I have worked in construction and engineering for just over two years now. Most public projects today have generous structured incentives that are given to companies for meeting goals for time and budget. We work to these incentives. Keep in mind that often you cannot be aware of the things that will go wrong until you actually do them. This happens in software developm…

If he hits the $1 billion target this will be the civil engineering project of the century. It's hard to overstate just how optimistic that figure is compared to literally every other mass transit project worldwide. The craziest part is that there is already a much cheaper and not that much slower option to get to the airport. This project seems rather Quixotic.

Why is it so unrealistic? For example, this line in Mumbai metro ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_3_(Mumbai_Metro) ), with 34 km of big tunnels and 27 stations is supposed to cost 3.4 billion. Surely, Chicago's 25-30 km line with just two stations (one sort of half built already) and smaller tunnels won't cost so much.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#138

Post by ben_w »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #95
ben_w wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are very good at not being crushed by moving things or falling into massive holes. I myself fail to be crushed or fall into a massive hole literally every time I use an elevator. Or go past a building site. Or…

People die pretty regularly when elevator doors open before the car has arrived. Elevator doors that don't open unless a car is there are a major safety feature.

“regularly” ⇏ (P(accident|all elevator use)»0)

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#139

Post by jandrese »

rohit2412 wrote: post #137
jandrese wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he hits the $1 billion target this will be the civil engineering project of the century. It's hard to overstate just how optimistic that figure is compared to literally every other mass transit project worldwide. The craziest part is that there is already a much cheaper and not that much slower option to get to the airport. This project seems rather Quixotic.

Why is it so unrealistic? For example, this line in Mumbai metro ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_3_(Mumbai_Metro) ), with 34 km of big tunnels and 27 stations is supposed to cost 3.4 billion. Surely, Chicago's 25-30 km line with just two stations (one sort of half built already) and smaller tunnels won't cost so much.

Two things. 1 is that they're planning to use a lot of cut and cover which is a lot cheaper but more disruptive. 2 is that the project isn't complete yet so those final cost figures are still fiction.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#140

Post by Turing_Machine »

gok wrote: post #40
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

It's 37 minutes if you happen to be in the Loop and time the train perfectly. Oh, then it's another 10 minute walk to the gates. Oh and almost none of the Blue Line stations are accessible, so hope you're not in a wheelchair or carrying big bags (who takes luggage to the airport, after all?) Speaking of...where exactly do your bags go on crowded CTA car? I keep hearing this argument about the Blue Line from people wh…

> I keep hearing this argument about the Blue Line from people who really don't sound like they've tried it.

Yep. I traveled from the Loop to O'Hare on the Blue Line with luggage. Once. Never again.

The L just isn't designed for people to be carrying anything larger than maybe a small bag of groceries.

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