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Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#11

Post by Alex3917 »

rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

> One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave.

A better solution would just unpaid parental leave for both sexes, with a stipend paid for by the government.

The idea of paying people some percentage of their salary while on parental leave is an incredibly regressive policy and should be banned.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#12

Post by coldtea »

rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

>One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave.

One of the solutions to this is litigation, like in other countries, and burying any company that does it to the ground (including with consumer backslash and media shaming).

"Matching paternity leave" doesn't solve the problem for single mothers -- and it just provides a broader target to discriminate against.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#13

Post by Geeek »

lovich wrote: post #6
rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

You'd have to make it mandatory leave. The social pressure is still tilted towards women as care givers and men as providers so more men will end up not using the leave. If it becomes mandatory then it's just a baked in rising to every employee, _and_ will probably do better for society to have both parents get time with their children. I believe some European states solve this by having the state cover ~60% of your…

The social and bioligical pressure*.

I think we should strive to have equal maternity/paternity leave, but let’s not deny the origins of the current reality.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#14

Post by tinbad »

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take severance and leave. We had twins so she wasn't going back to work anyway but the fact that they tried left us with a bad taste.

EDIT: Let's call the company by name indeed.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#15

Post by endtime »

lovich wrote: post #6
rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

You'd have to make it mandatory leave. The social pressure is still tilted towards women as care givers and men as providers so more men will end up not using the leave. If it becomes mandatory then it's just a baked in rising to every employee, _and_ will probably do better for society to have both parents get time with their children. I believe some European states solve this by having the state cover ~60% of your…

Google gives 12 weeks of gender neutral baby bonding time (on top of physical recovery time, for birth moms). Andcdotally (sample size between 5 and 10), men do take less time off than women, but not due to any kind of pressure. With both of my wife's pregnancies I took six weeks, by which time I really wanted to go back to the office so I could just sit quietly all day.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#16

Post by coldtea »

ukj wrote: post #9
rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

I guess I'll be making damn sure to negotiate a pay raise based on the fact I've chosen not to have children! Where do I sign to veto my paternity leave?

Or, you know, businesses and societies could leave that as a courtesy to just those that did chose to have children -- a group of people that every society that cares about sustaining itself forward should encourage and respect.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#17

Post by sp527 »

tinbad wrote: post #14

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take seve…

You should name the company, assuming there are no legal barriers to doing so. How can we possibly fight back against abuse if we default to anonymizing the perpetrators out of fear?

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#18

Post by hexane360 »

coldtea wrote: post #12
rednerrus wrote: post #2

One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. If I gave you the choice of two employees, one of whom would take 12 weeks of paid leave and one who would take 2 weeks of paid leave, which would you choose? If you offered both sexes 12 weeks of paid leave, you wouldn't have to make this decision.

> One of the solutions to this is matching paternity leave. One of the solutions to this is litigation, like in other countries, and burying any company that does it to the ground (including with consumer backslash and media shaming). "Matching paternity leave" doesn't solve the problem for single mothers -- and it just provides a broader target to discriminate against.

Symmetric leave would help solve the problem for single mothers. The strategy doesn't rely on both parents getting leave, it relies on everyone at the company getting leave. The flaw with this strategy is it still allows discrimination against men and women who are likely to have babies, even though it discourages discrimination for men against women.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#19

Post by untog »

Geeek wrote: post #13
lovich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to make it mandatory leave. The social pressure is still tilted towards women as care givers and men as providers so more men will end up not using the leave. If it becomes mandatory then it's just a baked in rising to every employee, _and_ will probably do better for society to have both parents get time with their children. I believe some European states solve this by having the state cover ~60% of your…

The social and bioligical pressure*. I think we should strive to have equal maternity/paternity leave, but let’s not deny the origins of the current reality.

Why would fathers have biological pressure to spend less time with their children? I'd take five years paternity leave if I could get it.

Re: Pregnancy Discrimination Is Rampant Inside America’s Biggest Companies

#20

Post by oblong »

tinbad wrote: post #14

Personally experienced it. Wife worked at Google, had always positive performance reviews. Come pregnancy time she informed her manager, 3 days later they put her on a performance improvement plan. It didn't take long for them to realize they were making a big mistake, risking an expensive lawsuit so they let it go and let her have her paid 12 month leave. After returning she got the choice to do the PIP or take seve…

> let her have her paid 12 month leave

12 months of free money from the company I am screwing over, what a deal!

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