White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods • Hacker News Board

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#241

Post by merpnderp » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #167

merpnderp wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples and oranges. When has the US government stolen trade secrets from foreign companies and then bootstrapped new domestic companies to compete against them? China has surely done all the things you're accusing the US of, but they aren't being punished for that.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/airbus-germany-nsa-spyi... (I'm not sure anything has been proven definitively in the open, but I'm not sure that applies to all these China allegations either)

So you would have had a problem with the EU retaliating if they’d felt they had enough proof for a case?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#242

Post by sheepmullet » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

elago wrote: post #84

anon23423532 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If manufacturing moves elsewhere and a few million already disgruntled Chinese are out of jobs, Chinese government has big problems. Their impotent threat towards the US ag industry is also laughable when we produce 40-50% of the worlds soybeans and corn. Increasing food prices for the millions of unemployed workers is surely a winning strategy Cheap labor is plentiful, there's only one US consumer market. China has…

I'm curious how are you coming up with these economic projections? Are you running simulations? Reading reports? Are you an economist? What if China just sells to other customers? What is China subsidizes it's manufacturers, so they get paid and keep their production capacity whether or not they're actually producing? Exactly like soybean and corn farmers in the US are btw. The whole thing seems incredibly complex, a…

> and most of the economic opinions I read

Have you read the economic opinion on income taxes?

Hint: They also make markets less efficient. But nevertheless we think the trade off is worth it.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#243

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #203

mcphage wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s going to buy the US-made components if the manufacturers that use those products have already moved to China because of the tariffs?

Probably those same manufacturers, depending on whether the added labor premium is less than the cost of shipping finished goods across the Pacific.

As a first-order approximation, transoceanic shipping is essentially free. A quick google gives me $5,000 to ship a container from China to a US port. Considering the volume that a 40' container can hold, yeah, that's pretty much free.

Compare that to even cheap US labor rates and it's a no-brainer.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#244

Post by abiox » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #223

siddarthd2919 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... your okay with Chinese kids with heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. The USA has more enforcement over these kind of things. If toxic pollution is your only concern, yes it is better to have those industries in USA.

>So... your okay with Chinese kids with heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. Show me where I said that. Of course not. You seem to be ok with every country that hopes to participate in the technological economy having their own contaminated region. Step back for a second. Think of the earth like a single-unit closed system. Would we rather have 195 regions contaminated with TCE or one/two? Your petty nationalism w…

> Show me where I said that.

it seems like a logical implication, unless you're also entertaining the idea of production ending altogether.

> Would we rather have 195 regions contaminated with TCE or one/two?

i'm not sure, would 195 be better, or have some advantages? will all of these 'regions' be identical?

> Your petty nationalism would force those kids to stay in their country AND have them deal with the toxic waste of their protectionist government-subsidized industry because they'll have no other choice but to.

and you advocating that china be the location of choice for toxic waste will surely result in something different?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#245

Post by dang » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #145

Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point and ask... What do you manufacture? Would you be interested in a startup that offered you a waiver of these tariffs? My prior point was you will start seeing start ups pop up left and right offering “tariff free imports/importing for US manufacturers as a service”. Somehow that is controversial enough to be downvoted withou…

> Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point

Please don't hijack HN threads that way.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320879.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#246

Post by sheepmullet » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #201

kinsomo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down > Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you take to accomplish that?

What's with this "rebuild the American manufacturing base" part? The US is already one of the top manufacturers in the world.

Then why are people in this thread so convinced they can't compete with China on components even with 25% tariffs?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#247

Post by nerfhammer » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

azurezyq wrote: post #193

Not sure how long this can last. But factories need time to be built. If the tariff got repealed in less than a year, it's just net negative for US economy and nothing will be really changed. I think generally trade war makes sense as a short time lever for something else, but may be a bad idea for long term growth .

lol you would need 800% tariffs for it to be worth it to build US factories to make these things

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#248

Post by handbanana » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

luma wrote: post #28

I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version: this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help "protect" American businesses. I don't feel li…

No decision is good for everyone. Unfortunately for you, this one isn’t

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#249

Post by TooBrokeToBeg » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

AFNobody wrote: post #144

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(a) I mean this tariff does definitely harm China. The reason they're the only viable place to purchase these items is because they're so cheap. Making them more expensive gives space for non-Chinese competitors to enter into business. (b) It actively harms some businesses, but also gives room for new companies to form where they wouldn't have been able to previously. It's wrong to claim this hurts 'business' in a br…

> Perhaps but in this case better for who? It doesn't seem to me that - for most Americans - allowing the Chinese to steal our technology and then underprice our businesses with cheap labor is beneficial. - China's labor prices are increasing faster than they are in the US. So fast in fact, people are automating factories in China and/or moving factories to other countries. - Every country _except_ the US will contin…

> the TPP followed by multilateral action to punish China.

So subserving the US to a more ludicrous IP extension (both in duration and power) from less totalitarian (than china) nations (but still more than the US) is the solution? Laughable and misguided.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#250

Post by paloaltokid » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

A family member who's been an electrical engineer for many decades made an interesting observation: the United States industrialized China. When labor got too expensive in the US, manufacturing moved overseas. Capital became available in China to build and build and build because they knew that American business wouldn't be able to resist the competitive pricing.

I still remember overhearing my engineer family member on the phone with an American supplier 15 years ago and the supplier saying "all my factories are in China - the last competitive place left!"