Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 390 posts

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#171

Post by znpy »

luma wrote: post #72
anon23423532 wrote: post #48

It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short…

I understand the rationale, which is pretty clearly laid out here: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Section%20301%20FINAL.P... What I don't understand is the response. The burden of this cost has entirely been placed upon US businesses purchasing products from (in many cases) the only place you can buy them and then assembling the completed product in the US with US labor. As someone doing small-scale production…

> The burden of this cost has entirely been placed upon US businesses

This is imho the right thing to do: on the large volume, it might make it economic enough to just build such components in the us, recreating old jobs of the now lost middle-class.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#172

Post by nickpeterson »

delbel wrote: post #94
kayfox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm worried because a nonprofit I'm working for recently decided to manufacture a convention badge in Ohio rather than China because it was barely economically feasible... with this tariff change it may eat too far into our donations.

It would be unfortunate if your non-profit had to switch to just "Hello, I am ..." name tags.

Just an aside, I used to work at a custom label printing place (in Ohio even, funny that), which often got convention orders because they had holograms on them.

I think security around conventions can be concern (you don't want someone doctoring a phony badge and walking into a convention with a few thousand people.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#173

Post by mtw »

anon23423532 wrote: post #48

It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short…

The are subsidies everywhere. The US government subsidized the oil industry for dozens of years, same for agricultural sector and major sectors of the economy (See Great Depression). Currently, electrical vehicles are also receive subsidies in most states.

I'm not a big believer in IP (go Free software!). I find though if we have to strictly follow IP, then the US would have to pay for the use of paper and gunpowder, and many other inventions originating in China.

What I hate so much about that it assumes it's all due to Chinese secretly stealing American IP. Nope - just go to China. People are working extremely hard and industrious. There is also 1.4 billion Chinese. And while there are good American products, there are also great German-made robots and tech, Korean chips, French nuclear reactors that Chinese would rather have than American products. Focus on building better products, work hard, and it will work out.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#175

Post by will_brown »

lozaning wrote: post #159
will_brown wrote: post #145

Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and reiterate my point and ask... What do you manufacture? Would you be interested in a startup that offered you a waiver of these tariffs? My prior point was you will start seeing start ups pop up left and right offering “tariff free imports/importing for US manufacturers as a service”. Somehow that is controversial enough to be downvoted withou…

I dont get how this business would work. How is the startup that I'm buying parts from avoiding the tariff themselves? Your point to me would seem to argue that forcing companies to dig holes is good because it will create a bunch of new hole digging startups.

>Your point to me would seem to argue that forcing companies to dig holes is good because it will create a bunch of new hole digging startups.

I’m definitely not arguing that it is good, just acknowledging that’s the way the World works. Just as you acknowledge you don’t understand how to avoid the tariffs, all these comments suggest the same, but I assure you the special interests who got this legislation past have no intention of paying them.

But now when you see the inevitable “tech start up(s)” who take advantage and offer it as a service being championed as disrupters, you can laugh with me at the irony.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#176

Post by sangnoir »

znpy wrote: post #166
atomi wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

> You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? Not "other countries", just China. Now, I'm not an us citizen and I don't like Mr Trump particularly, but consider the following: when you say "less efficient" what are you referring to? Is it technology? USA are certainly not behind China on technology. So what is missing to the equation? It's labo…

> Also, you're not considering environmental impact (that the US, while not excelling at this, actually do consider).

The US is a bigger polluter (per capita) than China. The current administration at the EPA seems to view environmental considerations as hindrances to industry competitiveness.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#177

Post by will_brown »

lozaning wrote: post #165
will_brown wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: create what is called in the US a foreign trade zone (internationally Free Trade Zone) Step 2: get VC to give you funding at ridiculous valuation Step 3: market yourself as “tech” start up, that is hacking the (new) law, and disrupting globally industry (of course said start up isn’t actually doing anything new that the manufacturing industry hasn’t always done) Sources: I was involved in one for an e-bike ma…

The first sentence of the 4th paragraph of your second link would seem to dispute your strategy. "Under zone procedures, the usual formal CBP entry procedures and payments of duties are not required on the foreign merchandise unless and until it enters CBP territory for domestic consumption" So the minute your startup sells me a chip for use in the US and it then leaves the free trade zone the tariff becomes due.

If I am importing a chip and reselling it I am not a manufacturer and yes I pay the tariff.

If I import the chip and use it as a component in my manufacturing of the end product I don’t pay the tariff on that chip.

The idea of the startup, as I mentioned in another comment, would be creating the zone and charging manufacturers to use my Zone. Like an Uber or On demand or WeWork (whatever SV analogy works best for you) of Foreign Trade Zones.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#178

Post by defertoreptar »

kayfox wrote: post #21

So, to encourage manufacturers in the US to build more stuff in the US, they will increase tariffs on components so that it will cost even more to build something in the US than to build it in China. Good plan, hello Canada!

This isn't as much about encouraging the USA to make stuff as it is about IP theft.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#179

Post by keo93ndn »

You’re considered a consumer of the things this targets

Their real concern is protecting the supply side folks. Basically themselves

You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down

Because no one in this admin has a damn clue

Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this

The ignorant are shooting themselves in the foot as the ignorant do

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#180

Post by defertoreptar »

code_duck wrote: post #47
vtange wrote: post #13

A lot of argument against tariffs seems to assume that prices in the US will rise and stay increased permanently assuming production stays in China. Wouldn't the downsides of tariffs actually only remain until production moves to say, Vietnam, etc.?

What would the benefit be to the United States for production to shift to Vietnam? Simply to avoid it being done in China? I thought the idea was to increase domestic production.

The idea is to address China's IP theft in the tech sector, amongst other shady trade practices.
Post reply on HN