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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

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Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#121

Post by s2g »

anon23423532 wrote: post #48

It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short…

> general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks.

That's the best argument?

ZTE was literally being used to spy en masse. maybe start there instead of "general national security".

Care to explain Canada and the EU getting tariffs?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#122

Post by s2g »

EpicEng wrote: post #52
anon23423532 wrote: post #48

It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short…

I don't know why you're being downvoted; China absolutely does all of those things. They are not playing fair in the global market and never have. One can debate whether or not the tariff is the right approach, but let's not pretend that China is a victim.

I would have downvoted for the "general national security" bit.

Everything else, sure. But national security, especially expressed like that, is just another "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN".

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#123

Post by jtmcmc »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #105
luma wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the rationale, which is pretty clearly laid out here: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Section%20301%20FINAL.P... What I don't understand is the response. The burden of this cost has entirely been placed upon US businesses purchasing products from (in many cases) the only place you can buy them and then assembling the completed product in the US with US labor. As someone doing small-scale production…

Yes but I see your comment as a rationale for an additional tariff that covers your circumstance. In what way would you punish China for their bad actions regarding US technology?

a multilateral action like say a non terrible version of the TPP...

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#124

Post by 0x0 »

mcphage wrote: post #97
anon23423532 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can try selling to other customers, but US is still around 25% of global GDP and probably a larger percentage of the market for the components that have been tariffed. Chinese government would have to print a lot of money to make up for that, which causes it's own issues, especially when considering the amount of debt China has already racked up. The point isn't for the government to skim 25%, it's to get China…

> if worse comes to worse bring manufacturing back to the US If these tariffs are on components and not manufactured goods, then it seems like it would push manufacturing into China, not bring it back to the US.

Maybe.... that is the purpose?

These whole shenanigans are quite transparent, really, aren't they?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#125

Post by HenryBemis »

atomi wrote: post #115
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

> And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

I would assume no. If you see the packaging of almost-everything (apart from food/drinks), chances are that they are made in China (and designed in X-Y-Z country).

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#126

Post by baq »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #108
User23 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True democracy would select representatives through a lottery draft.

Haha, would it be any worse than the congress we have now? I mean a round-robin lottery would probably have a better approval than the dismal 15% congress has now.

Likely better.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#127

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

radlad wrote: post #109
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but I see your comment as a rationale for an additional tariff that covers your circumstance. In what way would you punish China for their bad actions regarding US technology?

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. In this case, doing something (a) does not harm China, as intended, as they are still the only viable place to purchase these items, yet (b) actively harms business in the United States, as we are paying the additional cost ourselves.

(a) I mean this tariff does definitely harm China. The reason they're the only viable place to purchase these items is because they're so cheap. Making them more expensive gives space for non-Chinese competitors to enter into business.

(b) It actively harms some businesses, but also gives room for new companies to form where they wouldn't have been able to previously. It's wrong to claim this hurts 'business' in a broad sense.

>Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something.

Perhaps but in this case better for who? It doesn't seem to me that - for most Americans - allowing the Chinese to steal our technology and then underprice our businesses with cheap labor is beneficial.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#130

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

atomi wrote: post #115
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

>You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries?

In this case yes. This is competition between nation-states we're talking about, viewing the entire relationship through the narrow lens of economic efficiency is missing the forest for one specific tree.

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