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For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

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Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#121

Post by untog »

debt wrote: post #31

I disagree. His original vision for these types of projects was an elevator from surface to tunnel for a vehicle(likely a Tesla). So with that in mind as kind of a barebones version, even if he was to build a 17 mile tunnel that was effectively a walkway I would consider that a success. But a 17 mile tunnel that can accommodate autonomous Tesla 3, just as an extreme example, that’d also be a success. The autonomy wou…

> But a 17 mile tunnel that can accommodate autonomous Tesla 3, just as an extreme example, that’d also be a success.

Sounds like it would scale horribly compared to actual mass transit, though. The amount of space taken up per passenger would be huge if you use cars.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#122

Post by jcranmer »

koverda wrote: post #18
sandworm101 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was intrigued to learn that Musk wanted to build what is essentially a new take on the subway, but after reading this article am totally against the proposal. This is looking far more like an option for rich people to get away from the poors. Short of private helicopters, this is one of the few cities where the public transit option is faster than taking a limo. Musk wants to correct that imbalance by creating a fa…

I strongly disagree with you. If this project manages to reduce the cost per mile of building public transportation, the public as a whole will benefit greatly in the years to come. I'm not rich and I would love there to be many more subway lines built out in our cities. It's the Tesla Roadster of public transit: an expensive proving ground for a technology with a mass-market demand. I'd rather the government give br…

> If this project manages to reduce the cost per mile of building public transportation, the public as a whole will benefit greatly in the years to come. I'm not rich and I would love there to be many more subway lines built out in our cities.

The purported cost savings are primarily coming from making the system as incompatible as possible with traditional subways (i.e., the proposed tunnels are too small to be refit to accept standard loading gauge tunnels). Beyond that, the entire Loop concept boils down to a really low capacity system (subways generally are capable of moving 20,000 people an hour, all you really need is the rolling stock and traction power to make that happen; this system is talking about 2,000 people an hour with no room for upgrades without boring more tunnels--on par with a single highway lane). While the cost per mile might be reduced, the capacity is so low that the actual cost of the full system would be much higher.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#123

Post by handelaar »

thomasdelteil wrote: post #6
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

The project will be financed by the Boring company, not by the city. The Heathrow express in London work on a similar concept, it takes 15 min to go to Heathrow compared to 1h with the tube, and they charge ~10 times the price of a regular tube ticket.

Which is why the Heathrow Connect (as was, it's about to become part of the new Crossrail line and has changed name and operator in the past 2 months I gather), which costs about £11 and runs on the exact same line but stops on the way and takes about 25 mins, has eaten its lunch.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#124

Post by ocdtrekkie »

dymk wrote: post #33
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make a comment complaining about GDPR, or you could just go here to read the article (without the privacy-invading bloat JS) here: http://archive.is/0ZmZ0

Or he could do both. It’s a pain to click on a link and be redirected like that.

I wish I was so lucky as to live somewhere where sites that violate my rights blocked me instead, as the case happens. Note that while it may take a couple extra seconds to find a workaround, the archive.is site respects the user's rights, so in the end, the user benefits from this process.

I see GDPR-blocked comments are kinda like I see "paywall" comments: After a while, people noting a given site is blocked is just off-topic. It doesn't add anything people won't very quickly find out for themselves. I usually downvote them so they don't clutter up the main discussion.

Meanwhile, a comment providing a way around the paywall, generally will get an upvote, because they're saving everyone else time, so we can all get to the real discussion.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#125

Post by fishtank »

matt4077 wrote: post #12
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

Not to interfere with your cynicism, but the important information here is that Boring Co. is funding the construction itself. It's not public money being spent, and schools would be unlikely to receive any extra funding without this project. And, of course, this project is far more important as a real-world proof-of-concept for the technology than it is for its expected use for travelers. Reducing tunnel costs by 95…

It's a fine idea that public money will not be spent, but you don't have to look very far to find an example of the city and a development partner breaking the same promise (Obama Presidential Center: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kamin/ct-met-o...).

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#126

Post by cameldrv »

If I were the mayor of Chicago, I'd take that money and spend it at the airport itself. This line shaves 25 minutes off the travel time for a fairly small subset of people. The gains to be made at the airport are far greater. I get there 25 minutes faster, only to spend the next hour screwing around at the airport. If we:

1. Staffed security such that there was never a line, 2. Staffed the ticket counter such that there was never a line, 3. Installed double ended jet bridges so that we could load and unload the plane twice as fast, 4. Put moving walkways everywhere, 5. Improved staffing and efficiency of baggage handling, such that you could drop your bag 20 minutes before the flight and have it get on the plane,

We could shave 30 minutes off the airport experience, for every user of the airport, not just the ones that happen to be coming from downtown.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#128

Post by gamblor956 »

Shivetya wrote: post #101
sschueller wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the opposite of a good idea in my opinion. The reason you don't want to do that is because the private enterprise wants to maximize its profits. There is nothing wrong with that but in order to do so they will cut corners where ever possible and do the absolute minimum for upkeep. Yes, this happens with poorly managed and financed public projects as well but public infrastructure can and sometimes must operate…

you do realize that across the US there is nearly a hundred billion dollars of deferred maintenance to light rail lines used in most cities? Look at all the maintenance issues just with NYC subway system which is considered the best in the US. Plus they have the ability to provide rides for less than cost and recoup it by other means, taxes on unrelated activities. I find this idea really odd that a private company i…

Private company and long term game are oxymorons in today's business climate. It's the rare company that thinks beyond the next quarter, and in almost all cases, those companies are not publicly traded.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#129

Post by [deleted] »

nickik wrote: post #89
apeace wrote: post #74

The idea of having Boring Company pay for the construction and then reap the profits strikes me as a really great idea. When the government pays for construction, the contractors don't have a strong incentive to actually finish the project. They'll keep getting paid no matter how long it runs over or how over-budget it goes. But in this situation, Boring Co won't make any money unless and until they get it up and run…

> The idea of having Boring Company pay for the construction and then reap the profits strikes me as a really great idea. We could do what all normal business does for infrastructure. Revolutionary idea. But it is a good idea. Often private mass transportation is illegal. This seems to be a hybrid model, I don't quite understand what this project entails in terms of obligations by both sides. The downsides might be t…

[deleted]

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#130

Post by [deleted] »

fredley wrote: post #44
bluedino wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in one of the largest cities in the country? Can you dig a tunnel in London, Berlin, or Paris for that price?

You can for a lot less than $1bn/mile. Crossrail was ~£200m/mile. Even the Channel Tunnel, under the sea, was £300m/mile. Those prices are all inclusive , so that includes building stations, rolling stock etc. Also unlike old cities, there are no archeological issues when digging under LA.

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