Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 130 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#61

Post by cjg »

almost wrote: post #56
DrJokepu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider this: you're on an eight hours long flight and you need to make a really urgent call. There are no technical reasons why you wouldn't be able to do so, but it is forbidden because some people would abuse it and wouldn't be considerate to other passangers. It's not the phone that should be banned, it's being an inconsiderate prick that should be disallowed.

But until we figure out a way to ban being a prick I'll take the blanket phone ban. And what is this urgent call about anyway? Maybe to you it seems urgent and to me it just seems like you're being inconsiderate.

Perhaps you are an eminent surgeon and someone is calling you for a life or death consult.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#62

Post by fizx »

The plural of anecdote is not data, but stories are fun.

Last Christmas, I was on a multi-hop flight back to SF from the east coast. We were going to be landing in Vegas, and I was talking to a flight attendant. She mentions that conditions in Vegas were a little crazy, as the runway doesn't drain properly and crosswinds are common.

As we're preparing to land, the captain gives the usual speech. It's going to be a little rocky on the landing; there's a sleet storm, etc.

We're making our approach, and the flight attendant gets on the PA. "Someone's cell phone is on. Turn it OFF NOW." A minute later: "Someone's cell phone is still on. I need EVERYONE to doublecheck their phones, and get that phone switched off!"

We ended up diverting to Phoenix, because the pilot did not feel comfortable making an instruments-only landing. His announcement was the only time I've ever heard a pilot sound audibly rattled on the PA.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#63

Post by mikeryan »

rakkhi wrote: post #16
mikeryan wrote: post #4

There's a pretty robust wikipedia article about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft

Thanks for the link, a few good quotes from there: Now this I can definately belive: "the report concludes that the primary reason for the ban on cell phone use in flight is that neither the FAA nor the FCC are willing to spend the money to perform conclusive safety tests. " God flight attendant observations? Thats the evidence that is reliable? How could you isolate for all the other factors? "However a few reports…

To cut the FAA/FCC a bit of slack, its not as easy as one test - one result. There are so many existing permutations of airplane electronics and changing cellphone technologies that its almost impossible and really not economical to test them all. So it is actually much easier to just say no.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#64

Post by philwelch »

WillyF wrote: post #49
hcho wrote: post #5

Leave your phone near a CRT screen or loudspeaker, observe the noise right before you recieve a call. The rest is statistics and probability. What's the probability of interference causing a fatal misreading in aircraft's sensor? Too small. What's the number of flights world wide? Too big. We would see a number of accidents if everyone kept their phones on all the time. As a death is one too many, it warrants the ban…

The "a death is one too many" argument is completely fallacious. If anyone actually believed it, we would all drive our cars at 10 MPH and never fly in planes. Every day we sacrifice human lives for small (or big) conveniences. It's not nice to think about, but it's the way our world works.

1,000 car crashes is not news at all. 1 plane crash or terrorist attack or school shooting is national news and bad PR. Society isn't rational about this. If it was it would disregard school shootings and build more light rail.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#65

Post by bl4k »

Here is the reason straight from the FAA:

"There are still unknowns about the radio signals that portable electronic devices (PEDs) and cell phones give off. These signals, especially in large quantities and emitted over a long time, may unintentionally affect aircraft communications, navigation, flight control and electronic equipment."

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsid=62...

ie. We don't know, but we are playing it safe. While it is an inconvenience, I take comfort in knowing that the regulators are erring on the side of caution when it comes to air safety.

If they are so cautious with the slightest possibility of radio interference from a 3v device, then I can be assured that the remainder of the plane (ie. the thing that is flying at 800km/h at 30k feet with 200+ people inside it) has been checked over and is safe.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#66

Post by notahacker »

SpikeGronim wrote: post #26
spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

If they were really dangerous, Al Qaeda would be using them to bring down planes.

That would be like al-Qaeda operatives trying to cause road accidents by not recalling their Toyotas. [Theoretically] increased risk != an effective weapon.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#67

Post by CWuestefeld »

mquander wrote: post #36
cryptoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the part I don't get; there's no "ban" at all! I can bring a bunch of phones on the plane and just not tell them about it. If they search my bags, they'll remove my 200ml of water citing "it's too dangerous" but they'll leave the cellphones alone. That's not much of a "ban". So I still disagree that phones could interfere in any meaningful way with any aircraft's systems.

That is a foolish conclusion. Firstly, if the TSA searches your bags and actually finds a "bunch" of cell phones, I bet that they will find an excuse to hassle you about it. Secondly, your own example shows how shoddy this reasoning is; the TSA is not rational* about what they confiscate and what they don't -- your water isn't dangerous, and they took it, so why would you trust their judgment on cell phones? Thirdly,…

it's (vaguely, remotely) possible that some new phone released yesterday is dangerous,

That's no greater a possibility than for my netbook, or my wristwatch, for that matter. Why pick on phones over other electronics?

(I suppose the answer is to see your previous paragraph regarding rationality)

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#68

Post by konad »

bl4k wrote: post #65

Here is the reason straight from the FAA: "There are still unknowns about the radio signals that portable electronic devices (PEDs) and cell phones give off. These signals, especially in large quantities and emitted over a long time, may unintentionally affect aircraft communications, navigation, flight control and electronic equipment." http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsid=62... ie. We don't kno…

How hard could it be to get 500 phones, put them in a plane and dial them all ?

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#69

Post by bl4k »

joezydeco wrote: post #54
artmageddon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit that I wasn't aware of this, but on the same token, would that portion of the electronics not be shielded as well?

The 767 was first built in 1981, long before everyone in the passenger cabin was emitting microwave-class RF radiation. The plane itself serves as a very large shield to outside radiation, but I'm guessing the internal wiring is not RF-shielded because of weight concerns. Wonder how much it costs to rewire a 30 year-old plane.

It cost $368 Million when the FAA forced operators to replace Mylar insulation (cause of at least two accidents):

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_10_19/ai_n129...

According to this very interesting IEEE article, it costs anywhere from $1-5M per airplane, which doesn't include lost business cost:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/down-to-the-wire...

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#70

Post by jeebusroxors »

ultrasaurus wrote: post #50
spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

I flew a plane for the first time yesterday, it was only a tiny two seater, but with modern electronics. My instructor was using his iPhone during the flight and he didn't seem worried.

Flying a C172 G1000 is not the same as flying a 737-600. You're not shooting RNAV approaches, CAT I ILS, or low alt routes. You shouldn't even be looking at the instruments (I'm sure the CFI has told you).

How about that annoying click/buzz in your headset from the phones TX? It's easy for you to ask your friend/CFI/passenger to turn off their phone but how about a cabin of ~100 people...while flying your approach?

Post reply on HN