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For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

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Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#31

Post by debt »

I disagree. His original vision for these types of projects was an elevator from surface to tunnel for a vehicle(likely a Tesla).

So with that in mind as kind of a barebones version, even if he was to build a 17 mile tunnel that was effectively a walkway I would consider that a success.

But a 17 mile tunnel that can accommodate autonomous Tesla 3, just as an extreme example, that’d also be a success. The autonomy would work perfectly within the tunnel, it wouldn’t need a track. If there was elevators on both ends, then multiple Tesla’s could go in and be queued at the destination end for the elevator back to surface.

It wouldn’t be 12 minutes but it’d still be way faster than rush hour.

The electric skate version of the tunnel I think is the idealized version.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#32

Post by martinald »

FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

Assume it does cost $1bn, then that's 40million rides to break even (obviously a lot of other costs I'm ignoring here). If only 5% of people using OHare (80million) take it, then that's 10 years before it is paid back. Considering this infrastructure should last 50 years minimum, it could well be profit generating or at least revenue neutral.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#33

Post by dymk »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #16
igravious wrote: post #5

I followed the Chicago Tribune link because I wanted to read the article that provided this quote, “can build tunnels at least 14 times faster than previous efforts, which a company official acknowledged the company must still prove,” … and I got this! http://www.tronc.com/gdpr/chicagotribune.com/ "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committe…

You could make a comment complaining about GDPR, or you could just go here to read the article (without the privacy-invading bloat JS) here: http://archive.is/0ZmZ0

Or he could do both. It’s a pain to click on a link and be redirected like that.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#34

Post by bluedino »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #20

I can’t believe California pays 1 billion dollars a mile just to drill out tunnels. I think the going rate in Europe (not even China!) is something like $40M/km or fifteen times less than what California is paying per mile.

Even in one of the largest cities in the country? Can you dig a tunnel in London, Berlin, or Paris for that price?

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#35

Post by chapium »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

> This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50 Roads suffer from induced demand [1]. You can't build your way out of traffic. The only solutions are tolls or quotas. In any case, if you can't find anyone willing to pay to use your infrastructure (at a price that recoups the investment), that's a sign you overbuilt. > transit for the actual public Cars going through this tunnel are cars off…

The highway corridor from downtown to Ohare is one of the worst commutes in the country. Expanding mass transit is a good thing from this point of view.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#36

Post by marter »

Fsp2WFuH wrote: post #25
bonestamp2 wrote: post #13

> In Toronto, where the subway system doesn’t reach the international airport, a brand-new airport express line has fallen seriously short of ridership expectations, even with its one-way fare of $12.35 The reason this is failing is because of awareness. I travel to Toronto for work 4-5 times every year (for the past 12 years). I heard about this extension being approved a couple years ago and I've never seen a sign…

Yes, it will fail for other reasons.

Which are?

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#37

Post by jcomis »

thomasdelteil wrote: post #6
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

The project will be financed by the Boring company, not by the city. The Heathrow express in London work on a similar concept, it takes 15 min to go to Heathrow compared to 1h with the tube, and they charge ~10 times the price of a regular tube ticket.

And Heathrow express is nearly empty all the time...

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#38

Post by igravious »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #16
igravious wrote: post #5

I followed the Chicago Tribune link because I wanted to read the article that provided this quote, “can build tunnels at least 14 times faster than previous efforts, which a company official acknowledged the company must still prove,” … and I got this! http://www.tronc.com/gdpr/chicagotribune.com/ "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committe…

You could make a comment complaining about GDPR, or you could just go here to read the article (without the privacy-invading bloat JS) here: http://archive.is/0ZmZ0

Thanks for the link good buddy. I should have dug a little for an archived link before posting my comment.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#39

Post by Joeri »

martinald wrote: post #32
FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

Assume it does cost $1bn, then that's 40million rides to break even (obviously a lot of other costs I'm ignoring here). If only 5% of people using OHare (80million) take it, then that's 10 years before it is paid back. Considering this infrastructure should last 50 years minimum, it could well be profit generating or at least revenue neutral.

Musk always runs over budget by a multiple, it’s how he rolls. Maintenance is probably three times or more the initial outlay over a 10 year period. So, it probably won’t be profitable or revenue neutral.

But it shouldn’t be. A brand new transportation mode is going to run at a loss until people figure out how to deploy it at scale. It would be weird for it to be profitable from day one.

Re: For $1B, Elon Musk’s Tunnel to O’Hare Would Be a Miracle

#40

Post by gok »

FLGMwt wrote: post #3

This is terrible. $25 for 12 minutes from one place in the loop to O'Hare CTA is $2.50 for 37 minutes (the $5 is if you start from O'Hare) This is only benefitting people for whom 25 minutes is worth $20/$22.50. $1bn or whatever absurd cost it comes out to be is much better spent on improving transit for the actual public. Or you know, to stop shutting down schools. EDIT: typo

It's 37 minutes if you happen to be in the Loop and time the train perfectly. Oh, then it's another 10 minute walk to the gates. Oh and almost none of the Blue Line stations are accessible, so hope you're not in a wheelchair or carrying big bags (who takes luggage to the airport, after all?) Speaking of...where exactly do your bags go on crowded CTA car?

I keep hearing this argument about the Blue Line from people who really don't sound like they've tried it. I'm happy we have it as an option but it's really not ideal. A 12 minute express with short headway and space for bags would be a total game changer. Everyone within ~25 minutes of the Loop would now be able to take transit to/from the airport in 40 minutes, not just people who happen to be going to/from the central business district.

And the city isn't paying any of that $1B, they're really just giving Boring Company permission to try to pay for it on their own. It's not money that would otherwise be spent on CPS. I'm not completely convinced this is really the right solution. My personal pick would be using the Metra NCS route to run an express train and then moving the the O'Hare Transfer Station to be actually inside the airport, which would also make transfers with Amtrak and other Metra services easy. But that too would cost a lot more than $1B, and no one's jumping up to do it.

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