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App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

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Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#111

Post by slantyyz »

bigato wrote: post #17

After more than two decades in the industry, you start getting cynical towards these kind of "programming for non-programmers" tools. All of them are trying to abstract away the complex parts of the programming problem. Guess what, it doesn't matter how many layers of abstraction you pile up, you never abstract away the need for consistent logic. You end up requiring the same kind of people that have the brain skills…

>> All of them are trying to abstract away the complex parts of the programming problem.

You're right, but you're also looking at it from the lens of a programmer.

From a user's perspective, they have a problem to solve, and they just want a tool that will help them. From their perspective, they are not thinking about it like a programming problem. Even if they have to write a little bit of script/code, they don't necessarily perceive what they're doing as programming.

That's why Filemaker Pro, Hypercard, Excel, Notes, etc. developed huge popularity among "advanced end users".

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#112

Post by slantyyz »

neurobashing wrote: post #104
bigato wrote: post #17

After more than two decades in the industry, you start getting cynical towards these kind of "programming for non-programmers" tools. All of them are trying to abstract away the complex parts of the programming problem. Guess what, it doesn't matter how many layers of abstraction you pile up, you never abstract away the need for consistent logic. You end up requiring the same kind of people that have the brain skills…

I had a lot of the same opinions, and then I actually got a job at a low-code platform vendor. The biggest thing I learned, the secret truth, is that "low-code" is intended to be a force multiplier for "real programmers". Low-code dev shops look exactly like every "real" shop I've seen: source control, sprints, Jira, "omg feature creep" meetings, insane stakeholders, the works. "low-code" developers are "real" softwa…

You're totally right.

Most vertical market solutions were started by advanced end users trying to solve their own day-to-day problems. Chances are they couldn't afford to hire a team of developers to build them a custom solution, so they cobbled one together themselves. Other people in their field see what they're doing, get excited, and a lightbulb goes off - "I can make a business out of this!".

Eventually it gets to the point where those solutions need to start following the rigors of a proper dev shop, but in the early days, it's more often than not the "low code" dev that you're talking about.

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#113

Post by bitmapbrother »

zenovision wrote: post #93
deklerk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

24 deprecated services in 2018 alone (in just 6 months...)

I'm not seeing 24 products in 2018, but just 1 - Encrypted Search.

I just realized you're counting the Others section and incorrectly lumping them into 2018.

It would seem you also neglected to read Wikipedia's banner above the Other section that stated:

This section is missing information about the discontinuation date of each product in this section. Please expand the section to include this information. Further details may exist on the talk page. (October 2013)

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#114

Post by archgoon »

projectramo wrote: post #59
Pamar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I am the guy that came in a few years later and had to reimplement a bunch of custom (undocumented) Lotus Notes applications in order to move actual documents to a proper document management system (with access profiles and searchability) integrating the apps in an intranet portal, allow them to talk with other applications and finally put everything under SSO. Thank you for the experience.

I have also found that when I enter a new workplace, everything done before me was a mess of unwieldy, poorly documented and unstructured code. Worse it uses an old, archaic platform that is long overdue for a complete overhaul. Then when I arrive, I make everything logical, nice, structured and proper. After I leave, once again the place falls prey to disorganized minds who take my work and mess it up for flashy new…

> Then when I arrive, I make everything logical, nice, structured and proper.

Not to mention self-documenting.

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#115

Post by kirbypineapple »

wycy wrote: post #32
mcroft wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always got the impression that Lotus Notes was a great idea, but very poorly implemented. The concepts in it were good, it was just a shame it inflicted so much suffering.

What aspects of Lotus Notes seemed like a good idea? Genuine question. I remember being horrified by almost everything about Lotus Notes. Sametime was great, though.

I realized how great Sametime was after I was forced to move to Skype for Business. The meeting functionality wasn't great but there were other great features. I sorely miss the button that allowed you to drag a rectangle on your screen and it would automatically send the resulting screen capture as a message. Not as an attachment that you had to open up, an actual image in the chat. Why can't skype figure that out!?

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#116

Post by bitmapbrother »

cottsak wrote: post #7

How will this not become hell on earth for software developers, al-la Microsoft Access, Oracle APEX, etc.. ??

Having used Access a few times I find it hard to believe how anything could be worse than that anti-productive, database corrupting, File Already in Use piece of garbage. It's astounding that they're still updating it.

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#117

Post by slantyyz »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #61
mcroft wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always got the impression that Lotus Notes was a great idea, but very poorly implemented. The concepts in it were good, it was just a shame it inflicted so much suffering.

I still wish for a widely-deployed replacement for Notes/Domino. Sure, I can build CRUDish apps with Django, but there are simple use-cases that take me a week with Django, that would have been a day with Notes. It's crazy that things are slower for me 20 years later. I'm pretty sure I'm not dumber now.

Does Filemaker Pro solve that problem?

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#118

Post by will_dev_4_food »

projectramo wrote: post #59
Pamar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I am the guy that came in a few years later and had to reimplement a bunch of custom (undocumented) Lotus Notes applications in order to move actual documents to a proper document management system (with access profiles and searchability) integrating the apps in an intranet portal, allow them to talk with other applications and finally put everything under SSO. Thank you for the experience.

I have also found that when I enter a new workplace, everything done before me was a mess of unwieldy, poorly documented and unstructured code. Worse it uses an old, archaic platform that is long overdue for a complete overhaul. Then when I arrive, I make everything logical, nice, structured and proper. After I leave, once again the place falls prey to disorganized minds who take my work and mess it up for flashy new…

I, too, would like to pat myself on the back for having excellent code management skills, and problem solving. But most of all, for going completely meta on people.

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#119

Post by eitland »

projectramo wrote: post #59
Pamar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I am the guy that came in a few years later and had to reimplement a bunch of custom (undocumented) Lotus Notes applications in order to move actual documents to a proper document management system (with access profiles and searchability) integrating the apps in an intranet portal, allow them to talk with other applications and finally put everything under SSO. Thank you for the experience.

I have also found that when I enter a new workplace, everything done before me was a mess of unwieldy, poorly documented and unstructured code. Worse it uses an old, archaic platform that is long overdue for a complete overhaul. Then when I arrive, I make everything logical, nice, structured and proper. After I leave, once again the place falls prey to disorganized minds who take my work and mess it up for flashy new…

This is a nice joke.

However I've seen it for real too: a former boss calling me about a problem with a Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere problem. So I tell him I've forgotten it all but it is all documented in the wiki I set up with the guy who supported the system after me so, just search for Sybase.

Well... Turns out that documentation is gone.

Re: App Maker, Google’s low-code tool for building business apps, comes out of beta

#120

Post by rahimnathwani »

slantyyz wrote: post #117
rahimnathwani wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still wish for a widely-deployed replacement for Notes/Domino. Sure, I can build CRUDish apps with Django, but there are simple use-cases that take me a week with Django, that would have been a day with Notes. It's crazy that things are slower for me 20 years later. I'm pretty sure I'm not dumber now.

Does Filemaker Pro solve that problem?

I have never used it, but it's no longer available as of last month:

http://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-pro/

"FileMaker Pro is no longer available. It has been replaced by FileMaker Pro Advanced which includes more features to help you develop and deploy custom apps faster and more efficiently."

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