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Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

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Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#101

Post by fjones11 »

sjg007 wrote: post #39
aikinai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has a cool system where everyone with a new child gets (very long and equal) parental leave. If you physically give birth, you get extra time for preparation and recovery (e.g. men and women adopting, etc. don’t get it). I think this is a good way to recognize the extra burden of parents who give birth while being fair on the parenting front.

Seems weird to discriminate against adoptive parents... I understand the reasoning but seems weird. It would probably be better to have a medical policy applicable to everyone.

I think OP means that birth mothers get a little more time than fathers and adoptive parents. Having a baby is rough on the body, and there's a lot more to the physical recovery afterwards than most people realize. For example, if you have a c-section, it takes approximately 6 weeks to recover from that, and there are certain physical side effects that make it more difficult to work from an office until recovery is complete.

So that part is more like medical leave than parental leave (even though you're also parenting at the time).

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#102

Post by [deleted] »

to_bpr wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This CEO should suffer legal consequences.

If a startup is running on tight runway then female staff getting pregnant could be massively detrimental. In many civilized parts of the world, a female employee getting pregnant will mean disruption during the pregnancy to accommodate doctor's visits and health issues, and then months of paid leave PLUS having to pay to backfill their position with a temp, plus the costs of recruiting and ramping up said temp. That…

[deleted]

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#103

Post by pancakes123 »

amyjess wrote: post #99
to_bpr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a startup is running on tight runway then female staff getting pregnant could be massively detrimental. In many civilized parts of the world, a female employee getting pregnant will mean disruption during the pregnancy to accommodate doctor's visits and health issues, and then months of paid leave PLUS having to pay to backfill their position with a temp, plus the costs of recruiting and ramping up said temp. That…

Honestly, this just fuels my dislike of startups. Startup culture is toxic by nature. My advice is this: companies need to suck it up. We live in a society with rules and laws for a reason. If your business can't exist under those rules and laws, then it doesn't belong in society. Ventures that are detrimental to society simply shouldn't be allowed.

Please don't think OP's comment is representative of other startups. It isn't.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#104

Post by TheBeardKing »

amelius wrote: post #73

Hypothesis: Today's dads behave more like kids, compared to previous generations. I mean, 40 year olds dress like teenagers (sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, sometimes a cap), they often have the same hobbies as teenagers (e.g. video gaming), and responsibility is low because there is a high level of social security.

I very much agree. I've thought for some time now how I have much in more common with my 8 year old nephew (I'm 34) than with my own father. My father's interest include hunting, bows, knives, religion, war aritifacts and memorabilia, and other things which were common among men for a hundred years. Things rapidly changed in the information age, so I grew up with computers and video games in similar ways to kids today. Granted we didn't have the level of mobile technology, but I still had Gameboy. And many of the same franchises from the 80s/90s have persisted in popularity to today - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Nintendo characters, Lego just to name a few. I've matured out of most kid things, but my point is that I can relate much more to my nephew over those things than my father could to me.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#105

Post by CalRobert »

to_bpr wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This CEO should suffer legal consequences.

If a startup is running on tight runway then female staff getting pregnant could be massively detrimental. In many civilized parts of the world, a female employee getting pregnant will mean disruption during the pregnancy to accommodate doctor's visits and health issues, and then months of paid leave PLUS having to pay to backfill their position with a temp, plus the costs of recruiting and ramping up said temp. That…

"many civilized parts of the world"

You should try visiting one of them.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#106

Post by pancakes123 »

GuiA wrote: post #14
monocasa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, equal paternity leave is a great thing for women's rights too. When employers will see the same leave for their employees when they have a child regardless of gender, then there's less of a rational reason to discriminate against women in the hiring process.

This is very important. I once worked for the CEO of a startup who told me that he was hesitant to hire women because if they got pregnant “it’d totally screw us over”.

Like how you said you "once" worked for this CEO. Doesn't seem the kind of leader I'd want to work for either.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#107

Post by TheBeardKing »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #78

Simple question: But is this a positive? For the dads? The moms? And most importantly, the kids? More is more. More is not better.

I don't imagine these kids growing up saying "I wish my dad hadn't spent so much time with me." Maybe in the helicopter parent sense, but an increase in quality time with your dad doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in independent play, or child-led play. If it does, then I would likely be concerned as there is mounting evidence that decreasing independence is not good for kids.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#108

Post by marbletiles »

to_bpr wrote: post #90
ponderatul wrote: post #64

I don't want to take away from the results from the study. But it would be a great area to study the relationship between men and interaction with women, especially those displaying toxic femininity, in the context of fatherhood. Don't know if anyone coined the term toxic femininity, but it should obviously be a field of study, just as toxic masculinity is.

>Don't know if anyone coined the term toxic femininity, but it should obviously be a field of study Current Western society has placed women so high up on a pedestal that publicly leveling criticism at the gender in any aspect is detrimental to one's career and social standing. You're being flagged and downvoted for merely suggesting that not everything about femininity is positive. Let that sink in.

No, he's been flagged for suggesting someone study the effects of a thing which he immediately admits he's just made up. It's not even "we should see if there's a counterpart to toxic masulinity", it's "I think there's toxic feminity, so we should study its effects!"

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#109

Post by TheBeardKing »

amyjess wrote: post #93
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #57

Something I find bemusing are the never ending slew of studies that aim to evangelize 'new ideas' in parenting and child rearing contrasted against the negative changes in outcomes of children and young adults in the US today. Children and young adults in the US today are, compared to decades past, suffering sharp spikes in mental illness, obesity, as well as performing relatively worse academically and even exhibiti…

And yet juvenile crime is not only at a 30-year low but keeps hitting new lows year after year after year. [0] [1] [2] [3] [0] http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/CA_Youth_Crime_20... [1] https://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/10/31/10793/explaining-... [2] https://johnjayrec.nyc/2013/10/03/databit201304/ [3] https://jjie.org/2015/02/26/ncjj-report-shows-juvenile-crime...

Is a decrease in crime really a valid counterpoint to an increase in depressed, overweight, and suicidal kids? On one hand you have maybe time served in juvy with a chance to straighten out and learn life lessons, or possibly become a career criminal. On the other hand you have an obese recluse with a chance of suicide or long-term depression.

edit: To add to that, of course crime is down - kids are driving later, going out less, having less sex. There are less opportunities for crime, unless you count underage sexting. So if you view more time spent in front of a screen preferable to a decrease in misdemeanor loitering, you'd have a point.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#110

Post by LeifCarrotson »

amelius wrote: post #73

Hypothesis: Today's dads behave more like kids, compared to previous generations. I mean, 40 year olds dress like teenagers (sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, sometimes a cap), they often have the same hobbies as teenagers (e.g. video gaming), and responsibility is low because there is a high level of social security.

> Hypothesis: Today's dads behave more like kids, compared to previous generations.

> I mean, 40 year olds dress like teenagers (sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, sometimes a cap), they often have the same hobbies as teenagers (e.g. video gaming)...

I'm with you to this point. The 'adult' father figures of the past - for example, as exaggerated in the character of George Banks from Mary Poppins - were much more austere and had higher societal requirements regarding acceptable activities and behaviors. If that means that they are involved in the lives of their children rather than simply trusting that the nanny has them scrubbed, tubbed, and adequately fed, so much the better!

As Mr. Banks lamented,

    You've got to grind, grind, grind
    At that grindstone
    Though childhood slips like sand through a sieve
    And all too soon they've up and grown
    And then they've flown
    And it's too late for you to give
    Just that spoonful of sugar
    To help the medicine go down
Mr. Banks was a miserable person, and his children needed a father figure. If today's dads are more like Bert and less like Mr. Banks, good for them!

> and responsibility is low because there is a high level of social security.

Uh, I took a different track than you did. You seem to be of the opinion that fathers being more involved is due to the fact that they are kids. I believe that they choose instead to decline the negative aspects of traditional masculinity and, in so doing, are better than if they had maintained those aspects. This may mean that they wear comfortable clothes rather than suffering in a suit and tie, or that they are more active (their children may see their fathers doing undignified activities like running when they could be walking), or that they change their kids' diapers or feed them rather than leaving those tasks to the womenfolk. All positive changes, in my opinion!

People shouldn't need a fear of death by starvation to motivate them. If a removal of this fear allows them to be better people, that's a good thing. If some people abuse the safety net, things would not be better if it were absent and they simply crashed.

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