Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

miamiherald.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 153 posts

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#21

Post by vidanay »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #16
Shank wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur on the quality of the article, but I would say it goes further: The Miami Herald is even suing to get public records requests filled in the interest of journalism. They’re doing an exceedingly good job at trying to get answers to tough questions.

I am ignorant as to this whole story, but out of interest, why is it a bad thing to wait for the NTSB report? Often it is good to wait for an entire report to nail down the facts before the witch hunt should begin, is there something in this case that means this isn't the best idea?

I would say primarily because the "public" has a very short memory, and an answer published 24 months from now will barely be a page 3 comment.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#22

Post by jessaustin »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #16
Shank wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur on the quality of the article, but I would say it goes further: The Miami Herald is even suing to get public records requests filled in the interest of journalism. They’re doing an exceedingly good job at trying to get answers to tough questions.

I am ignorant as to this whole story, but out of interest, why is it a bad thing to wait for the NTSB report? Often it is good to wait for an entire report to nail down the facts before the witch hunt should begin, is there something in this case that means this isn't the best idea?

The phrase "witch hunt" implies that society intends to persecute some low-status unfortunates on false pretexts. The politically-connected administration of some rich school built a giant bridge and within a week it fell down and killed some people. Investigating this incident is as far from the meaning of "witch hunt" as we might imagine.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#23

Post by ceejayoz »

> "This structure should function as more than just a path for circulation; it should be a place to be and a place to be experienced, and the FIU campus and its students must be proud of it," the document's introduction reads. "It should be a destination in its own right where community members might linger, gather, and create an urban social space — a linear park."

This reads a lot like every startup that tries to convince themselves that their run-of-the-mill CRUD app is "changing the world".

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#24

Post by carapace »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #12
lrn wrote: post #9

The Fountainhead Chapter I; Howard Roark to the Dean --- "Why do you want me to think that this is great architecture?" He pointed to the picture of the Parthenon. "That," said the Dean, "is the Parthenon!" "So it is." "I haven't the time to waste on silly questions." "All right, then." Roark got up, he took a long ruler from the desk, he walked to the picture. "Shall I tell you what's rotten about it?" "It’s the Par…

Then again the Parthenon has has been around for nearly 2,500 years (finished in 432 BC), and during that time has been considered by people from all over the world one of the most beautiful buildings ever built. What building by modern architects will even be around 500 years from now, much less revered as an example of beautiful architecture?

Saint Mary's Cathedral (in San Francisco)

I don't say it's as beautiful as the Parthenon, and it might not last 500 years, but we moderns aren't completely shabby...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Saint_Mary_of_the...

> Its saddle roof is composed of eight segments of hyperbolic paraboloids, in such a fashion that the bottom horizontal cross section of the roof is a square and the top cross section is a cross.

The interior is open.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#25

Post by peterwwillis »

So many concrete bridges fail for so many reasons, it's kind of crazy that we keep building them. It's much easier to inspect and repair steel than concrete, and it fails more gracefully.

Also, I'm not even an engineer and I can tell you that uneven strut design would give you uneven loading on the span. Christ. Why didn't they just build a damn cable stayed bridge?! If traffic was a concern, they could have built it half cantilever, half guyed. No formwork, strong, still visually appealing, no stupid truss design, and no concrete.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#26

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

otakucode wrote: post #13
ams6110 wrote: post #7

There are some parallels with software. Encryption for example. Don't deviate from standard implementations unless you really know what you're doing. And even then, review it and review it again. Preferably by a separate expert.

The parallels do not go very far, unfortunately. When software fails, and kills people, it is rarely investigated. It's development is rarely investigated. When that is done, however, the differences widen even further. There is no degree to which software development can be done incompetently that criminal negligence charges can succeed. We saw this proven within the past decade when some of Toyotas cars engaged in…

I like your viewpoint. I’d be more inclined to call programmers engineers under your proposed system.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#27

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

ceejayoz wrote: post #23

> "This structure should function as more than just a path for circulation; it should be a place to be and a place to be experienced, and the FIU campus and its students must be proud of it," the document's introduction reads. "It should be a destination in its own right where community members might linger, gather, and create an urban social space — a linear park." This reads a lot like every startup that tries to c…

“Hey guys let’s go hang out on the bridge over the highway.” It is like a plaza, but a bridge! Ignore the fumes and deafening roar of traffic.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#28

Post by WalterBright »

"But they suggested that over-reliance on the computer models, a common pitfall in the profession, may have played into it."

It's very easy to be seduced into assuming a computer model's results are correct. Computer models of critical bits should always be double-checked by a separate independent calculation.

For this bridge, a simple analysis of static forces should have been sufficient for a cross-check, despite the article repeatedly implying this was a difficult/tricky computation. It is not.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#29

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

jessaustin wrote: post #22
JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am ignorant as to this whole story, but out of interest, why is it a bad thing to wait for the NTSB report? Often it is good to wait for an entire report to nail down the facts before the witch hunt should begin, is there something in this case that means this isn't the best idea?

The phrase "witch hunt" implies that society intends to persecute some low-status unfortunates on false pretexts. The politically-connected administration of some rich school built a giant bridge and within a week it fell down and killed some people. Investigating this incident is as far from the meaning of "witch hunt" as we might imagine.

I was using the term to imply someone (or some thing in the case of a company) being labelled as the villain without the evidence conclusively proving they are guilty of the crimes they are accused of.

Re: FIU had grand plans for 'signature' bridge. But the design had a key mistake

#30

Post by WalterBright »

peterwwillis wrote: post #25

So many concrete bridges fail for so many reasons, it's kind of crazy that we keep building them. It's much easier to inspect and repair steel than concrete, and it fails more gracefully. Also, I'm not even an engineer and I can tell you that uneven strut design would give you uneven loading on the span. Christ. Why didn't they just build a damn cable stayed bridge?! If traffic was a concern, they could have built it…

The struts varied in thickness according to their net loads, so their loading should have been the same.
Post reply on HN