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Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

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Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is new tech like g.fast that enables gigabit speeds over copper wire like an existing phone line for short distances.

I wonder what speeds would be achievable over the ancient copper wire in my building.

Depends. If it's 50+ years old it'll be fine, sure, some of the joints might not be, but that's not awful to fix.

Then Copper prices went up massively for a while and thinner guage twister pair went in at best, and Aluminium was used at worst.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#182

I went to school at the University of Colorado Boulder. Something this article doesn't mention is that the city already has over 100 miles of fiber laid that isn't currently being lit up: http://www.govtech.com/dc/articles/Boulder-Colo-To-Light-Up-... . There were several groups of students looking to build companies to utilize this existing infrastructure, as well as business interests outside the city, but it just…

In Australia, fiber-to-the-home vs. fiber-to-the-node has been a fairly political issue about which I knew very little, so I looked it up. [1] After reading about parent comment and the miles of unused fiber, I wondered what the difference between fiber near my home vs fiber in my home would be, and found some good info. [2] [1l http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-13/federal-election-nb... [2] https://www.makeuseof…

The problem is that FTTP/H has a much larger up front cost because of having to clear out potentially blocked ducts if underground, and the labour intensive work that needs to be done at the property.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only visit Boulder, so I'm not positive, but it seems to me that they have tons of people coming in from the suburbs. Most of the people inside of Boulder, in my experience, tend to ride bikes and/or take public transit, but you need a car to get to some trails and you need a car to get into Boulder as a resident of the surrounding areas (or at least most people do).

Yes, a good majority of people who work within Boulder live outside of the city proper. The price of living is too high for many people, especially service industry folks. Public transportation isn't bad, but it's not great. We were recently promised a commuter train line from Denver, and were given the ol' switcheroo and instead the bus system was expanded. I do not know of any trails you would absolutely need a car…

You're lucky you have the cell network option :). I have similar speeds through a WISP but no cell signal.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a good majority of people who work within Boulder live outside of the city proper. The price of living is too high for many people, especially service industry folks. Public transportation isn't bad, but it's not great. We were recently promised a commuter train line from Denver, and were given the ol' switcheroo and instead the bus system was expanded. I do not know of any trails you would absolutely need a car…

You're lucky you have the cell network option :). I have similar speeds through a WISP but no cell signal.

Cell. is actually about 3x faster in a quick test, but latency is also about 3x as bad. In general though, cell isn't that great of an option full time, if you go anywhere, say a quarter of a mile west of where I am, as you'll be in the mountains with poor service.

It's just whatever the local subnet is for my neighborhood. Across the street, the DSL is much better.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#185
The article mentions that ~5% of residences don't have internet, but I would wager the majority of those do have smartphones and can easily access the internet via cell data, coffee shops, public outdoor wifi, etc. Is it really that much of a travesty if it's hard to stream movies on your couch?

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#186
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unfortunately you can't grow up, because of the view and its prohibited Because they don't want to is the reason. As a consequence, people like teachers, firefighters, police, nurses and so on can no longer afford it and must commute in to serve the landed gentry. Yuck.

As a native to boulder I don't want them to. Nothing predicates you should have to live in boulder, or that the town has to be built up. Thats just a temporary solution, boulder has worked hard to keep the town nice and I appreciate that. They have done a lot of work to provide low income housing but it's a difficult task and we should continue to work on this. The workforce should be negotiating their salaries to co…

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Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#187

I works really like one of these projects to trial a 'practical' last mile, like something like cat6 for the last 100m. In KC, I live in a 4 story apt, and frequently stopped to talk to the installers when Google fiber was pulling everything into the building. It really is Fiber to a jack in your unit, but the last 5ft is still copper Ethernet. I figure they could have saved themselves a bundle of $ if they ran coppe…

Realistically, Google is rethinking Fiber for a wireless solution;

Wireless cuts down on the fiber, copper, and individual install costs -- and is therefore cheaper to upgrade in the future; A mesh network with a node near every door and if you need more coverage you add more nodes.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#188
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can grow up, in, out, or grow the prices. Boulder has chosen the latter, meaning that more and more people drive into the town to work. Big win for the environment, there...

We were promised light rail, and even raised taxes to build it out, and then the government decided to give us a toll lane on a highway(managed by an australian company) and a bus route as a compromise. Front rangers talk a lot about environmental stewardship but from their actions I don't believe they really care about it.

amen to that

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#189
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's twenty years. There is a decent chance that mainstream high speed Internet will be wireless in 20 years.

Wireless has been perpetually behind star topology wired networks despite the fact that it tends to be much easier to upgrade a few antenna's and radios around a city then make people buy new modems every couple years. Worse, wireless is really spotty, I can barely get a data connection where I work and at my house with my carrier, much less a few Mbit/sec. Like WiFi, the advertised peek rates tend to be far in exces…

I think you are significantly underestimating just how long a timespan we're talking about here. Twenty years is a very long time. Twenty years back predates 802.11b. In 1998, our houses and apartments were all wired up with cat5. In San Francisco, at the time, we were thrilled to have Ricochet modems that asymptotically approached ISDN BRI speeds (for that matter, we were generally pretty thrilled to get ISDN BRI speeds to our apartments to begin with).

You don't have to expect breakthroughs to think digging new trenches might be a mistake; all you have to believe is that wireless network performance will continue roughly along the trends it's already been following.

Re: Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt

#190
post #15

Some back of the napkin math. $140 million for 40,000 households in Boulder = $3,500 per household. If 50% of people subscribe (typical for municipal broadband), that's $7,000 per subscribing household, or higher than Charter's market cap per subscriber. A quarter of the population of the city is below the poverty line. If the intent is to offer them subsidized broadband, let's assume we get no capital recovery from…

we don't really care how much sewer or electrical connection cost. It is just a must-have utility connection, even though we know that it is possible, at least for some time, to live without it. The municipal fiber is the same. Not everybody looks at it this way today - like not everybody 300+ years ago saw why municipal sewer is necessary.
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