Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#101

Post by chendragon » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

I'm not entirely sure if the problems with the keyboard are simply inherent. The gap between the keys on the new one and the frame is simply tiny, and since the key doesn't move, and because the key hits the bottom when pressed, anything that gets in there isn't going to come out or let the key work normally. With that said, I still do appreciate the thinness of the new MacBooks.

Interestingly enough it also seems to vary between units. The 2017 TBMBP is apparently V3 of Butterfly according to someone who worked at Apple on Reddit, who claims they tried to fix the issue.

The 2016 Retina MacBook (12") that I had was able to handle some serious crumbage and never had issues. I at some point had some real crumbly snacks over it and nothing got inside the keyboard.

Then I got a 2016 MacBook Pro (13", touch bar). Even with lighter use, and trying to keep anything getting into it, I had basically every problem with that keyboard. The only thing that fixed it was a silicone keyboard cover from Amazon, after taking all the keys off and cleaning under them. Then it never broke again because it was effectively sealed.

I wonder if the thinner MacBook has a different keyboard than the Pro (It does, I know that now). I think that might have made a big difference, since the thinner one was definitely less susceptible to pulling stuff into it. Might also have something to do with the airflow from the key going in and out.

On the plus side though, the keyboard covers impact typing a LOT less than they used to because of how thin the keyboard is.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#102

Post by benatkin » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

jacquesc wrote: post #78

notadoc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what my entire office did too, holding out hope the next generation has a reliable keyboard and no touch bar

Same at our office. mid 2015 model 15" is the standard issue for developers. A few people go the latest model and all have regretted it. Seems like Apple can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. iPhone and Watches is all they care about and they don't put any thought into Macs anymore.

I didn't think it would drag out this long.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#103

Post by atombender » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

slouch wrote: post #32

I bought a 2015 refurb instead of a new macbook because of the keyboard issues. It'll get me over this issue and into 2020, I believe.

I bought a new 2015 model, although in my case the Touch Bar was the main reason -- I absolutely hated the new keyboard layout (lack of Esc, no physical function keys, arrow keys are now arranged in way where your fingers can't easily find the right keys without looking down).

Unfortunately, turns out they're no longer made with a discrete GPU -- they only have an Intel Iris integrated graphics chip now, no AMD Radeon. The discrete model was discontinued in 2016.

As a result, graphics performance is horrible. It's especially noticeably bad with the scaled Retina mode. I have to use the scaled mode on my external 4K display because otherwise the UI becomes so small the text is unreadable. That's when you realize that Apple's approach to resolution independence is pretty crappy. You'd think they could just run in 1:1 and just render text, buttons and so on a little larger, but that's not possible.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#104

Post by tonyedgecombe » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

amarka wrote: post #15

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #7

My guess is the touch bar along with haptic feedback is going to replace the whole keyboard.

My guess is that your joking, if not then you must be one of the few touchbar fans ("there are dozen's of us...dozens!").

No on both counts, I'd rather they just bought their keyboards from Lenovo.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#105

Post by augbog » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

millzlane wrote: post #36

If anyone knows apple the way that I do. The answer is yes and no. Yes they will address it when it affects their bottom line. No, because they don't consider it an issue to begin with. I'm old enough to remember when they had the logic board issue and specifically gave us (Apple care reps) instructions to not mention it to the customer. So if you called with an unrelated issue, I wasn't allowed to tell you about the…

Wow that is shady as fuck. I've always respected Apple for delivering fairly high quality products because, well, they are all the same (granted for a very high price but some people they are willing to pay that for that kind of service whether it's expected or not)

I'm seriously disappointed they do that.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#106

Post by d3sandoval » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #38

rodwyer wrote: post #11

I got sick of it myself and switched to a Lenovo X1 Carbon. Comparison here: http://blog.richard.do/index.php/2018/05/2018-macbook-pro-vs...

Can you Hackintosh it? Like ZenBook? Meaning you can run Linux, Windows 7/10 and macOS on the same comp without any compromises?

Apparently yes https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/comments/1iybjq/comment/...

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#107

Post by bitL » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

solomatov wrote: post #17

Even if they have, they are known for super strict security rules, so it won't be disclosed. I saw a link to their patent application where they patented a way to protect the current keyboard design from dust and crumbs. Personally, I got tired of their disregard for software developers issues with hardware, and now my working machine in the new XPS 13 from Dell. I am happy with it.

Are you an exception within your famous company or did they all abandon Macbooks?

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#108

Post by atombender » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

notadoc wrote: post #35

Who knows? Nobody knows outside of Apple. My best guess would be that maybe by sometime late next year at the earliest they will have redesigned the keyboard, but it could easily be 2020 or later, or maybe never. It's also possible the next version won't be an improvement, as many learned when the 2012-2015 MacBook Pro was getting long in the tooth, and the 2016-???? replacement arrived to replace it. In the meantime…

Word of warning: The current 2015 models sold by Apple don't have the discrete GPU, only an integrated Intel Iris chipset. Graphics performance is atrocious, especially with scaled Retina. I often experience sluggishness related to graphics performance. To get the discontinued, superior discrete model, you have to find a refurb or a used one on Craigslist/EBay/etc., and you have to be pretty lucky to find one with all the right specs (for me, minimum 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM).

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#109

Post by bitL » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

d3sandoval wrote: post #106

bitL wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you Hackintosh it? Like ZenBook? Meaning you can run Linux, Windows 7/10 and macOS on the same comp without any compromises?

Apparently yes https://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/comments/1iybjq/comment/...

A bit old ;-) Mountain Lion on some earlier generation.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#110

Post by davidmr » Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

hiram112 wrote: post #83

rodwyer wrote: post #11

I got sick of it myself and switched to a Lenovo X1 Carbon. Comparison here: http://blog.richard.do/index.php/2018/05/2018-macbook-pro-vs...

I've heard X1 Carbon 5th is great for Linux, but 6th gen still had issues. Anyone know if the 6th gen is okay with Linux yet?

It’s still a bit iffy. The lack of a proper S3 sleep state is a big, big problem for me. I lose about 6% of the battery life an hour in sleep on F28, and it generates enough heat that I don't feel comfortable putting it in its sleeve while in sleep. Some people have had good luck patching the ACPI tables, but that doesn't work on every distro. I can hibernate okay, but that's really much worse than sleeping.

Other than the power issues, it's a lovely laptop.

I don't regret buying it at all because I don't really mind shaking out problems with new hardware and I usually keep my laptops for ~6 years, but if it's a big deal, I'd buy a used 5th gen X1. Those work flawlessly.