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Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

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Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#81
post #41

Even if they have, they are known for super strict security rules, so it won't be disclosed. I saw a link to their patent application where they patented a way to protect the current keyboard design from dust and crumbs. Personally, I got tired of their disregard for software developers issues with hardware, and now my working machine in the new XPS 13 from Dell. I am happy with it.

As an EE, I despise using laptops, rather want real engineering workstations. So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Or rather people just being used to a laptop since they are ubiquitous in college. Even plugged into monitors, laptop keyboards just plain suck. I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with GNU Radio, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it.

All the replies you've had so far are good reasons for why software engineers might prefer laptops.

As a different way of looking at it, as an Electronic Engineer (I hope I got the right acronym), some of the software you run may well require a bit more performance than most software engineers need.

I think a mobile i7, 16GB of fast RAM, and a fast SSD is pretty good for most developers now, particularly when we're not compiling code - we're mostly using scripting languages (at least the type of devs around here) so the development cycle depends more on reloading and parsing files off disk than on intensive compilation and optimisation steps. There are definitely software engineers who need more, but many will do just fine on a laptop, and the portability wins out.

Compared to Electronic Engineering, I remember some of the software that EE students used at the uni I went to required some beefy hardware to run on. It was large complicated software, that I'd put in the same category as 3D modelling suites, or video editing/effects/rendering. It required high performance workstations, and higher performance simulation servers. I can totally see why an Electronic Engineer would prefer a workstation (although I think to call it a "real" workstation would be a little disingenuous, it depends what your engineering is!)

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#82
Yes, someone knows. (Seriously though, I hate it when people online will ask "does anyone know....?" )

But to answer the question, apple say their plans ahead of time. I'm sure that when they release their next model of laptop it will have a revised keyboard.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#83
post #11

I got sick of it myself and switched to a Lenovo X1 Carbon. Comparison here: http://blog.richard.do/index.php/2018/05/2018-macbook-pro-vs...

I've heard X1 Carbon 5th is great for Linux, but 6th gen still had issues. Anyone know if the 6th gen is okay with Linux yet?

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#84
post #46

let me piggy-back, is Apple going to have proper HDMI ports in future? Im going surface book the moment my current macbook stops working.

apple's mo has always been "why go with standardized ports when we can make our own, nearly identical ports and sell you the adapters?" i think usb is one of the only cases where they haven't. and thunderbolt, sort of. apple loves their proprietary stuff though.

That doesn't seem fair. The MBP sitting in front of me has mini DisplayPort, USB, HDMI ... all are standards. The newest MBP has USB-C, which is a standard. My last MBP also had FireWire, which was also standardized.

There are dongles to buy, but that seems to mostly have to do with such things as Thunderbolt and the ability to piggyback older legacy technologies on newer connectors.

Now if you were talking about the phone, I agree. But I also see the point -- micro USB is a terrible, terrible thing. As long as it's robust I would like to see the next phone ditch Lightning for USB-C, but I am otherwise much happier with Lightning connectors than I have ever been with micro USB.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#86
post #15

My guess is the touch bar along with haptic feedback is going to replace the whole keyboard.

My guess is that your joking, if not then you must be one of the few touchbar fans ("there are dozen's of us...dozens!").

I would absolutely love the touchbar ... as long as it were in addition to the regular keyboard, instead of a replacement for that top row of keys. Put it above the keyboard and keep the ESC and function keys, and I think it would be great.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#87

When I invoke 1Password with ⌘\, I have to press the \ key reallllly hard. I have to get my hand up on one finger, and use the mass of the hand on just one finger, from a ninety-degree angle, to get that \. That's because a little piece of dust got into my keyboard.

My downarrow was like this for a while. Then it broke and I'm sending it in.

I've had so many keys stuck due to dust or some other particle . When I press hard enough I can hear it crack and the key usually works again...I really hate the keyboard :P

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#88
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you're joking, but I've long wondered about keyboards transmuting into touch pads of some kind. Haptic feedback is only part of it, though. I really depend on affordances like the nubs on the F and J keys or the valleys between keys to orient my hands above the keyboard properly without constantly having to look at them. The lack of such affordances on your average on-screen keyboard make high-speed t…

I don't know about formal research, but there's definitely a track history of membrane keyboards and other such "advances" that kill the physical feedback becoming miserable market failures. Given Apple's usual attention to detail about the importance of such tactile feedback, I can't imagine them going to a system that rejects it. Moreover, we're not seeing non-Apple PC vendors moving in that direction too, even tho…

I have a MacBook 12". It took me either months or more than a year to notice that the haptic touchpad does not depress at all when you click. It happened suddenly when I pushed it while the laptop was powered off, and I panicked, thinking the pad was broken / stuck.

I still grin like an idiot pushing into the pad and telling myself that no, my finger did not go down. It is really magical.

If this can be done behind an eink screen or something similar, with a distinct feel for resting a finger and pushing a button, I believe it can be day and night for laptop keyboards. Alternatively, these eink screens could for sure have ridges for key delimitation.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#89

If anyone knows apple the way that I do. The answer is yes and no. Yes they will address it when it affects their bottom line. No, because they don't consider it an issue to begin with. I'm old enough to remember when they had the logic board issue and specifically gave us (Apple care reps) instructions to not mention it to the customer. So if you called with an unrelated issue, I wasn't allowed to tell you about the…

This. My last trip with my macbook pro to the genius bar went this way. My keyboard didn't work. He looked at my screen, then whispered: "your screen is having a recall -- look at the glossy layer - it is coming off -- we replace it for free".

I mean apple sure knows how to take my payment in 15 seconds at the store with my information and email address. But somehow they can't inform me of a recall.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone know if Apple plans to address the MacBook keyboard issue?

#90
post #41

Even if they have, they are known for super strict security rules, so it won't be disclosed. I saw a link to their patent application where they patented a way to protect the current keyboard design from dust and crumbs. Personally, I got tired of their disregard for software developers issues with hardware, and now my working machine in the new XPS 13 from Dell. I am happy with it.

As an EE, I despise using laptops, rather want real engineering workstations. So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Or rather people just being used to a laptop since they are ubiquitous in college. Even plugged into monitors, laptop keyboards just plain suck. I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with GNU Radio, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it.

I'll echo what others have said: Portability is _not always_ what you want, but when you need it, a laptop is valuable. I normally work at a desk, with my laptop plugged into my extra monitors. (I could use a docking station but I actually like the keyboard + trackpad on this (older) Macbook.)

Here are some times when I've benefitted from having a laptop:

- I can grab it and walk into an enclosed meeting room for a video conference. - A coworker and I can grab a conference room and pair on some task if necessary. - When on-call, I keep my laptop with me when I go home. - I can leave early to run an errand, and then work from home in the evening.

I am much more productive using my laptop than my home desktop, for some reason. It's likely that my laptop has all of my shell aliases, editor settings, source code, SSH keys, etc, but the main thing I think is that I don't need to context switch as heavily -- my editor still has the same things open, my shell has the same history, etc, as when I left work.

The ergonomics of a laptop could be better. I used to have a beastly machine with a nice mechanical keyboard, etc. I miss that a bit, but there are substantial benefits to having a laptop.

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