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Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

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Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next step beyond the mail was the telegraph and then the telephone. Those were built out by private companies, but operated under a regulatory regime called "common carrier," which protected the network owner from liability so long as it charged and carried traffic from all parties equally. These days, that concept is called "net neutrality" in the context of the Internet, and I suppose you may have heard it ment…

I think your point is generally spot on, but I wanted to nitpick at this one: > airlines needed it No, they didn't. Regulation of fares, routes and market entry of new airlines kept prices artificially high until airlines were deregulated in the late 70s. Quoting from Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act#Effec... ): "A 1996 Government Accountability Office report found that the average f…

If you push the fare comparison back to 1972, before the Arab Oil Embargo, rather than 1979, the heart of the Iranian embargo, the fare picture changes markedly.

A jet airliner's takeoff weight is over 50% fuel.

Robert Gorden inThe Rise and Fall of American Growth:

surprisingly, the period of most rapid decline in the real price of air travel occurred before the first flight of a jet plane. As shown in figure 11–10, the price of air travel relative to other goods and services declined rapidly from 1940 to 1960, declined at a slower rate from 1960 to 1980, and has experienced no decline at all in its relative price between 1980 and 2014. The growth rate of passenger miles traveled has mirrored the rate of change of the relative price except with the opposite sign, because lower prices stimulate the demand for any good or service.

The accompanying figure shows not merely a modest rise, but a sharp spike in airline pirces in 1979.

https://i.imgur.com/uykLMUa_d.jpg

Among Gordon's economic specialisations is the aviation industry.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#252
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means nearly half have a single (or no) option. Further, for many who have two choices, the decision is between not-actually-very-Fast DSL or a single cable provider. In Mountain View I had only shitty DSL or shitty cable. Both sucked and cable was very expensive. (This may be different now. My experience was 8 or so years ago.) I happen to be lucky to have actual high speed Comcast now, with an option for FTTH…

My two choices are my rural-telepohone co-op - or satellite. I'm not complaining b/c my ISP seems fine, but there isn't anyone else to run to if I'm unhappy. I don't consider satellite an option. If we count satellite, doesn't everyone in the US have "access" to broadband?

Depends. Does satellite do a minimum of 25mbps?

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#253

Interesting that wireless services was left out of the conversation. Given it's massive growth in urban areas, and the fact, there are many options for most populations. Video is hardly a high bandwidth use case. Cultivation of victims.

Wireless has traditionally been left out of common carrier / nn talks because its easier to compete in infra-structurally compared to running cabling.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#254
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

More than half of US households have multiple wired broadband providers: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/50-mi... This does not include wireless broadband options. Could the competitive situation be better? Absolutely. But it is, in fact, the "norm" to have a choice.

If your list of options can be counted on a persons digits then the market is inefficient.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even people who don't drive consume goods that are distributed by trucks.

Correct. And? Yes roads have benefits. They also have costs. The benefits are greater than the costs, but we should be aware that the costs still exist.

[deleted]

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. And? Yes roads have benefits. They also have costs. The benefits are greater than the costs, but we should be aware that the costs still exist.

If the benefits exceed the costs, it’s hardly fair to argue that the program slows economic activity.

Slowing economic activity IS the cost.

And the benefits outweigh the cost.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the benefits exceed the costs, it’s hardly fair to argue that the program slows economic activity.

Slowing economic activity IS the cost. And the benefits outweigh the cost.

Yes. And when a program's benefits outweigh its costs, it seems weird to say that the program is a damper on economic activity.

In other words, if Option A is "get zero dollars", and Option B is "spend $1 to get $2", it is unfair to complain about B's "cost" (spending $1) in isolation.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#258
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two choices are my rural-telepohone co-op - or satellite. I'm not complaining b/c my ISP seems fine, but there isn't anyone else to run to if I'm unhappy. I don't consider satellite an option. If we count satellite, doesn't everyone in the US have "access" to broadband?

Depends. Does satellite do a minimum of 25mbps?

Yes. With the usual caveats.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next step beyond the mail was the telegraph and then the telephone. Those were built out by private companies, but operated under a regulatory regime called "common carrier," which protected the network owner from liability so long as it charged and carried traffic from all parties equally. These days, that concept is called "net neutrality" in the context of the Internet, and I suppose you may have heard it ment…

I think a combination of the 2 is warranted. I'd hate to see it entirely controlled by the government because they tend to be more likely to install backdoors while private companies would push back to protect their users. With 5G networks I would think there is a lot less digging up streets so municipal plans are more feasible.

5G networks require lots and lots of fiber. This means a lot of digging is required.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#260
A few facts:

---In 2001, there were 9300 ISPs in America, handling the majority of US internet subscribers. ----By 2010, most of America was supposed to have a fiber optic service to the home as every state cut a deal to have the state utilities upgraded to fiber and to charge local phone customers. ---And every merger made the situation worse.

Unfortunately, the companies essentially lied about the deployments while competition was shut down, not through market forces but through a takeover of the FCC.

The FCC, in 2005, removed the right of small ISPs to use line sharing to offering service, and the competitors were removed by getting rid of the wholesale arrangements, both of which started when the Telecom Act of 1996 opened the networks to competition.

By combining the 'Broadband' service, which is Title II, with the Internet Service, an “information” service -- when the FCC mushed these 2 services together, they became, together, an information service, which stopped the obligation to rent the utility networks

– This caused Net Neutrality.

---7000 small ISPs were put out of business and then AT&T and MCI were put up for sale-- and merged.

Documented in: ‘The Book of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal”-- a free download. https://bit.ly/2M7KzTE

The FCC is currently erasing all the remaining laws and regulations on the telcos, claiming 5G will fix everything. With a range a few blocks and requiring a fiber optic wire -- what this is really about is that we'll have a few companies in control with no more regulations or obligations -- and whatever they give us-- we will have to be thankful for.

My take -- this has gone too far and we need to start to break up AT&T again.... and separate the companies from the wires.

And, we also need to go after the billions in cross-subsidies where the companies have been able, with the help of the FCC, to manipulate the accounting to dump most of the expenses into the state utility to make their other services 'profitable'.

These 2 recent articles supply a short history of the mergers and the commitments that were never completed for broadband and competition; the second is the Verizon New York 2017 financial report -- published MAY 31, 2018

---“The Mergers that Created ATT & Verizon Were Failures. Time to Break Up AT&T…Again.” https://bit.ly/2JM5zRB and ---“How Did Verizon NY, the State Utility, Lose $2.6 Billion in Just 2017? The FCC’s “Zombie” Rules.” https://bit.ly/2sLj2i0

I summarized the findings. So far, NO regulator has bothered to examine this new financial report and no reporter has bothered to dig into it.

We've all been played. Most people don't understand how we got here or that the FCC and telcos have actually rewritten the history-- it is said that the winners write the history.--We can't let this stand.

Netflix et al doesn't have to be ISPs... We need to reopen the networks for competition—wireline and wireless and let the customer choose which ISP to use over the networks customers paid multiple times to have upgraded.

And AT&T and Verizon should be separated from these utility networks—ie, all of the wires which would include all the fiber that was built for wireless, FiOS, etc).

No more tracking, blocking, prioritizing of their own affiliate companies, overcharging, and letting the networks deteriorate.

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