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Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

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Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#51

Post by jedberg »

0xffff2 wrote: post #22
haikuginger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having wireless providers who are able to provide landline-level speeds means that many markets will go from having one or maybe two real ISP options to having three or four. Competition means that if the benefits of net neutrality are desirable, customers will prefer an ISP (wireless or otherwise) that provides those benefits. Of course, most actual counterexamples to net neutrality are seen as positives (free Netfl…

Are these providers actually going to compete with landline ISP's? My landline ISPs over the last couple of years have had monthly data caps ranging from 256gb to 1tb. My cell plan currently throttles me after I exceed 6gb... That's two orders of magnitude that my wireless provider would have to increase the cap in order to compete with the landline ISP.

Verizon really really wants to be your main provider. Once they can provide you with a 1gbps wireless service, they will compete on price and data caps with your local wireline ISP to win your business.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#53

Post by rayiner »

mattnewton wrote: post #44
rayiner wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Startups manage to continue to exist on the Google Play Store and on the iOS App Store, even though Apple and Google directly compete with many of their offerings. Consumers basically have just two choices for mobile platform, but somehow that's enough competition to keep the kind of behavior you talk about in check.

None that could ever be an existential threat to the gatekeepers tough; that only happens on the open web. Which is about to be a lot less open.

Maybe. But it seems good enough. People aren’t clamoring for an alternative in the mobile space for example.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#54

Post by allthenews »

I don't understand why this is turning into such a massive panic. The internet wasn't cut up into throttled tiers pre-NN, and who exactly is going to be paying for internet if it doesn't deliver what they want?

Why do people have so little faith in the market? Why is the answer MORE regulation, when regulation and regulatory capture are what got us into this monopolized mess in the first place?

What about the fact that 5G is on the horizon? That powerful people like Elon Musk have spoken publicly about building alternatives to fiber/cable based internet?

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#55

Post by falcolas »

manofmanysmiles wrote: post #20
pascalxus wrote: post #5

This the end of innovation in online videos: "When companies like Netflix, which today closed with a market cap of almost $158 billion, can’t necessarily get enough negotiating power to ensure that consumers have direct access to them, no startup can ever hope to compete. America may believe in its entrepreneurs, but its competition laws have done nothing to keep the terrain open for them. Those implications are just…

This type of comment implies you think the world is static. I'm not saying that this good, but what makes you so sure market and social forces won't produce a better model? To me this is just a temporary setback, and a reminder why we need to focus on developing new technologies, like a "truly decentralized internet", blockchain, cryptography, and more. It almost feels like a the death throws of a monster that will d…

None of those technologies matter when your access to them is blocked.

When it comes to access, you have copper, fiber, and radio. The latter is not really competitive to the first two, both of which require significant up-front investments with no promise of revenue to pay those investments back.

Remember Google Fiber? Where's that now? Shut down with a marketing-speak comment that says "its purpose was fulfilled."

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#56

Post by spruciefic399 »

Another strategy to this (not exclusive of other strategies) is to encourage municipal ISPs, or even go further and roll out federal ISP infrastructure ala the federal highway system.

I've always thought that this would be well within the rubric of the USPS. The constitutional mandate for a postal service was drafted at a time when the internet could not have been conceived of. I would argue that the intent of the constitutional mandate was to establish communications and not necessarily paper mail per se. I think if the founders were alive today they would say that ISPs were the sort of thing that was intended. I.e., have the USPS start acting as an ISP, and charging for it like it would mail services.

I'm not saying that private ISPs should go away, just that I'm sick of this government handout to companies that want to have their cake and eat it too. No net neutrality? Fine. But then allow public ISPs--no, actively fund public ISP infrastructure--and allow for unfettered lawsuits against private ISPs for content going over their pipes. Also, take away right of way to private ISPs, and let citizens and municipalities charge arbitrary amounts for anything going over their property.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#57

Post by ethbro »

dsabanin wrote: post #43
knowuh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

But that's my point, it will give a smaller-sized competition more chances to differentiate, since users might start looking for something better.

It's infeasible when there's enough political money from the nationwide ISPs to make installing a new network prohibitively expensive.

Comcast, ATT, and Spectrum's ceiling of profit is the difference between the cost of delivering services and the potential cost of installing a competitive network.

And it's far easier to increase the latter than innovate and decrease the former.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#58

Post by irrational »

pascalxus wrote: post #5

This the end of innovation in online videos: "When companies like Netflix, which today closed with a market cap of almost $158 billion, can’t necessarily get enough negotiating power to ensure that consumers have direct access to them, no startup can ever hope to compete. America may believe in its entrepreneurs, but its competition laws have done nothing to keep the terrain open for them. Those implications are just…

Isn't there a new Fahrenheit 451 movie coming out soon?

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#59

Post by bradleybuda »

knowuh wrote: post #40
dsabanin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just fail to see how Comcast or Verizon are going to be selling you their internet connection if you won't be able to connect to the things you want to connect to (like Netflix, iTunes, YouTube) through them. Especially on higher plans, people buy a lot of bandwidth so that they can stream videos, that's how ISPs up-sell to them. If they start throttling, they'll be selling an empty bucket, and it's not going to be…

You must live in one of the few places in the US where high-speed internet is available through multiple providers. That is definitely not the norm. Most people won't be able to simply switch to the least nasty provider.

More than half of US households have multiple wired broadband providers: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/50-mi...

This does not include wireless broadband options. Could the competitive situation be better? Absolutely. But it is, in fact, the "norm" to have a choice.

Re: Netflix and Alphabet will need to become ISPs, fast

#60

Post by fetus8 »

irrational wrote: post #58
pascalxus wrote: post #5

This the end of innovation in online videos: "When companies like Netflix, which today closed with a market cap of almost $158 billion, can’t necessarily get enough negotiating power to ensure that consumers have direct access to them, no startup can ever hope to compete. America may believe in its entrepreneurs, but its competition laws have done nothing to keep the terrain open for them. Those implications are just…

Isn't there a new Fahrenheit 451 movie coming out soon?

Yeah, it's an HBO production.
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