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Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

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Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#211

Post by jhall1468 »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #95
nawgszy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's just not a terribly good or fast one From everything I've seen, its performance sits just below Java (4x slower, perhaps) on some standard algorithms or tasks, and significantly faster than languages like Ruby, Python, etc.. I never see hate for those languages like for JS, so I'll disregard that. >not terribly good This one never has made sense. What is it missing that makes you hate it so? I think it has rath…

> What is it missing that makes you hate it so? 1. Type Safety. TypeScript helps, but until strong typing is mandatory in the language, I can't fathom using JS in any sizable project. This is also true of Python, et al. 2. A sane dependency management framework. Maven solved this problem a decade ago. Gradle is trying to fix Maven's XML mistake. But the fact is, if I need a dependency in Java, I know how to get it. A…

> until strong typing is mandatory in the language, I can't fathom using JS in any sizable project.

There are massive JS projects in production today, but that's moot. It's never going to be mandatory because that ruins the point. Typing isn't a requirement of a language.

> A sane dependency management framework. Maven solved this problem a decade ago.

A Rube Goldberg machine that solved a problem? Maven's goals may have solved the problem, but its implementation did not.

> A sense of stability. Javascript's framework churn is just exhausting.

Feature, not a bug.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#212

Post by chrisseaton »

Amezarak wrote: post #130
cm2187 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another tweet on that thread: > how is that even possible? there are tons of legacy features in there, COM/OLE APIs, SDKs, plugin architecture, macro system, VBA interpreter, VBA IDE, graphing components etc. Almost 30 years of development. No way MS is going to rewrite all of that. (Maybe the "mobile" version) I think this is a strong indication that all these technologies are going away.

This would be suicide for Office. I struggle to believe that Microsoft is replacing the full Windows desktop version of Office with a version rewritten in JS. It makes no sense. Many, many, many businesses absolutely rely on the features you're mentioning, and many others that would be a tremendous undertaking to re-implement. There has to be something that's not being communicated right here. Maybe they mean the "li…

I also think it’s extremely unlikely MS is announcing an new native code compiler for JavaScript, something I’m not sure anyone knows how to do with reasonable performance, with a Tweet this casual.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#213

Post by TensorMetric »

morrbo wrote: post #142

Why not C#? Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to feed some of the APIs undoubtedly created for this into the new .net core stuff. I guess i'll just keep dreaming of the day when i can reliably convert a docx into a pdf without using office interop.

> Why not C#?

See my comments here:

* https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_...

* https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_...

Also, they're actually using Typescript.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#215

Post by dentemple »

alfredallan1 wrote: post #99
coinerone wrote: post #91

That could lead to a possible "good" Linux version of Office 365? That would be Awesome imho. AAAnd hopefully they kill VBA and replace it with JavaScript :D. Like Building Forms with JS in Adobes Lifecycle Designer but in a good way.

That’s a good thought. As bad as JS is, I’d still prefer it to VBA.

Having had to write both, professionally...

You've just never seen the monstrosity that is enterprise-level VBA.

Javascript is a godsend over VBA.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#216

Post by htor »

cirgue wrote: post #191
capelio wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more real world evidence does HN need to see before the "JS isn't a real language" meme is abandoned? Pretty sure we're up to billions of real world value created by software written in Javascript. If you're still dismissive at this point, it's time to catch up. You've missed the boat.

I will abandon my skepticism of JavaScript as soon as JavaScript boosters abandon their infomercialesque “millions of people can’t be wrong!” attitude and make a compelling case for the language itself. JavaScript is all we have for web dev which is why it’s so popular. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a fundamentally flawed language, it just means that no one has been able to popularize better solutions because of network…

the millions are not saying it's perfect. that would be wrong. as you say what we have is js, so let's move on and make something useful with it instead of complaining about it being flawed. it is evolving, being standardized and getting new features. its not going to go away anytime soon, so instead educate yourself into avoid the pitfalls that exist in the language and have fun being productive.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#217

Post by leeter »

dentemple wrote: post #206
thelarkinn wrote: post #92

Hi there, original tweeter here. Just to clarify: no one said when this work would land, simply that we are working on it! Sorry to disappoint XD, but I guess blame the OP.

Does this mean that VBA will finally die? Please tell me that VBA will finally die.

As much as I can imagine MS would love to kill VBA it would be a major loss of business if they did. Oil and Gas lives in the stuff and would probably even sue MS if VBA died. That said could it be getting a much needed fixup... probably. I suspect the same is true of COM plugins.

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#218

Post by jhall1468 »

slig wrote: post #185
PunchTornado wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it is not a pile of trash. the programmer can be a pile of trash though.

> because it is not a pile of trash For instance, see the `Set` implementation here " rel="nofollow">https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe... and note that it doesn't even has `union` and `intersection` in the standard library. You have to copy/paste some code and place somewhere to have a minimum usable `Set` implementation. Pretty much a "pile of trash" in my opinion.

This thread is getting weird. Now we're arguing an entire language is trash because the Set type doesn't have native methods you want? Really?

Re: Office 365 is being completely rewritten in JavaScript

#220

Post by StavrosK »

xamuel wrote: post #204
StavrosK wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Name a few. He did, literally exactly after that sentence.

No, he listed some things that he thinks are broken, he didn't list missing language features

I read it that he meant "fixes for these things are missing and that makes me hate it", i.e. I read it as the answer to your question. He doesn't hate it because it lacks features, he hates it because the existing features are badly implemented/thought-out.
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