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Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#21
(Disclaimer: I am an Apache Solr committer and popularizer)

Search is interesting! And it is important to differentiate the web search (Google) and domain-specific search (Solr, Elasticsearch, recent release of http://vespa.ai/). You cannot tune Google to your domain needs and understanding.

For domain-specific search, the basics are there. Even the fancy "basics". It is now very easy to add search to one's stack. In fact, Solr is in so many stacks, it is not even mentioned much anymore. But we still get the contributions back from Cloudera, Bloomberg, Alfresco, etc.

So, the cutting edge in Search is now on personalization, relevancy-tuning, indexing non-text content (music, images, etc), multi-word semantic search, graph traversal and, yes, Machine-Learning. See, for example, https://lucene.apache.org/solr/guide/7_3/learning-to-rank.ht...

In fact, the Solr conference that used to be called Lucene/Solr Revolution is now Activate and has focus on ML/AI because the topics are really starting to overlap (https://activate-conf.com/). You can see the interesting topics from last conference: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU6n9Voqu_1FMt0C-tVNF...

Learning (Solr at least) is a different issue. There are so many features now that the Reference Guide is absolutely enormous. And the demo schemas are still a bit of a kitchen sync, making it look more complicated than it needs to be. And, the last comprehensive book was several versions back. Again, that's because Solr is big and is growing really fast still...

Actually that's why I chose to be a popularizer within the Solr community and focus on making it easier for beginners to start.

See, for example, my latest presentation slides at: https://www.slideshare.net/arafalov/rapid-solr-schema-develo... and the backing configuration repo: https://github.com/arafalov/solr-presentation-2018-may (includes smallest viable useful schema)

(tl;dr) Search is still exciting, lots of cutting edge cool stuff, and there are people trying to make it easy for beginners to start.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#22
Great topic. Part of the issue is probably a transition from algorithmic approaches to data-driven approaches. What did previous users search for and click on? Existing companies have a huge advantage from years of data, and not the kind of advantage that others can learn from (compare to publishing a better algorithm). Another factor may be that parts of the problem can separated out and are studied on their own, such as natural language processing.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#23
"Search" is too broad to ever be solved. That's like "solving entropy".

Google focused on a specific subset — you enter a few keywords or a phrase, and the machine returns the top ~10 links to pre-existing (indexed) web pages. But that's not all there is to search!

Challenges:

1. Intranets: internal documents, typically in different modalities (FAQs, support cases, wikis, public pages) and across diverse storages that evolved throughout the years via acquisitions and osmosis.

2. Clustering: you don't have any keywords, but rather want to find how a particular document (legal template, its clause section) evolved over time. You want to avoid using keywords. Search for similar documents or document sections. Find similarity between two documents that is based on semantics rather than query keywords. Applications: eDiscovery, contract management…

3. SME & Intent: "relevant result" means different things in different domains, or even different aspects of a single domain. Google is doing an amazing job with their "single search box", but there are industries (for example, HR) where search precision matters much more than recall. More elaborate, focused, domain-specific facets or even dialogue systems make sense there.

Commercial plug: we built a search solution focused around semantic search (in the "machine learning and vectors" sense, not "sematic web and RDFs" sense), https://scaletext.ai. It's still early days in that our clients are all over the place, but to say Google/Lucene solved search is patently false.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#24

It's not that people have moved on. It's that the entire culture of the ecosystem is built upon a narrative that Google is an all-powerful machine that cannot be stopped or contested. So people don't try to compete, and if they do, they will be ridiculed for it. And for what good reason? Certainly not because of past attempts. In fact, Google has bought some startups that were involved with search. I'd be interested…

As a side topic, is there a useful web search engine that uses a fundamentally different approach to Google, e.g. aren't using backlinks as a ranking signal?

When Google's approach isn't giving me an answer, it'd be nice to try a search that wasn't based on a discoverability feedback loop.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#26
I've confronted my PhD supervisor (Professor of Library and Information Science) with this statement once, and she almost went berserk. Her take is that free text search is approaching the solved problem stage, but almost all other search isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#27
We are still in the stone age when it comes to search.

Ask Google who played the mens semifinals of Wimbeldon three years ago and Google will tell you it indexed 6 million pages to provide a link that may or may not have the 4 names I am looking for. Why is it doing all this pointless work? And why is it that dumb in 2018?

We have got so used to what it does that lot of people have stopped asking questions about how it does things and wether all the stuff it does is required.

Wolframalpha, Freebase/SemanticWeb/Wikidata/dbpedia approaches, NLP/NLU are still very underdeveloped and untapped.

Having open and distributed indexes like we see in nature with DNA is also totally unexplored because of Google type centralised index monopolies in various domains. It just takes a Gig or so to store a local offline index off all Wikipedia or Stackoverflow pages. And given the massive RAM and hard disks everyone has these days why aren't we seeing sophisticated local offline search apps?

The internet is getting exponentially more noisy day by day and in many ways its easier to find quality info going through a top notch library's index than wading through Google's. So there are lots of blindspots and areas to explore in search right now imho.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#28
I tend to think the search is often the last resort and indicative of the other navigation system being broken. When people can reach the info they need in a more organized way quickly, they'd probably do so. Therefore full text search has to cover every residual task; it's bound to be messy.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#29
If anything, it's an abandoned problem. A lot of companies bought really expensive enterprise search systems, which are sitting dormant because the results are so bad.

With advances in spamming, internet/email search is getting to be a harder problem every year.

I remember when Google was quite effective in finding what I need, but nowadays it's dismal. As an example, I googled for "storename return policy", and got page after page of results. All of them were tagged "missing storename", so just randomly picked return policies from other stores.

Search is their bread and butter, and they're probably keenly aware of the diminishing quality of results. I'd love to hear what's caused the recent trend for results that are missing a few of the most crucial keywords. Probably over-enthusiastically trying to filter out keyword farms.

Re: Ask HN: Is 'search' a solved problem?

#30
post #27

We are still in the stone age when it comes to search. Ask Google who played the mens semifinals of Wimbeldon three years ago and Google will tell you it indexed 6 million pages to provide a link that may or may not have the 4 names I am looking for. Why is it doing all this pointless work? And why is it that dumb in 2018? We have got so used to what it does that lot of people have stopped asking questions about how…

I think these sort of queries are solved.. if you know the categories of sites that index information and are able to scroll and process text, images and information quickly.

My first query string idea was 'men semifinals Wimbeldon 2015 wiki' and the resulting page contains the list in a nice format.

This is because I have the context that wiki pages would contain this sort of information. Google and others are getting better at processing more vague queries (like 'three years ago'), but I do agree we are nowhere close to being able to ask general questions. Knowing how to use the tools like google search (and other searches) and really advanced queries syntax is a force multiplier/enabler.

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