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Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

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211–220 of 396 posts

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#211

Just reading the first few comments.... I really don't get the Tesla hate. Is it hacker-ish contrarianism? Have they done something? What's the deal HN, why are we cheering against the home team? Overall Musk has been pretty straightforward and explicit with what he's doing. Tesla (and spacex) set extremely ambitious goals, like none of their competitors do. They take big risks. They're not interested in reducing ris…

SpaceX has admirably ambitious goals. While cheering/hating is of negligible value, it doesn't hurt to broaden one's view about NewSpace.

Ref: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-ffc-12-in_elon_we_trust

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I see this from the exact opposite view. I'm surprised it's taken this long for the rubber to meet the road. Tesla sells the most electric vehicles, but it's hardly the sort of delta you describe ("extremely ambitious goals, like none of their competitors do"). Nissan and Tesla both hit the 300,000 car mark in January/February of 2018. And let's not forget the recent NTSB report, which revealed that "A…

I guess we see things differently. Contractors are not some naturally occurring mineral, a side effect of some budget. They are companies, people. At present, they are companies comfortably using their existing operations to keep doing what they've been doing since the 70s. I think that it matters who that company is, what their future strategy is. It matters that they care about reusability, creating technology that…

So what matters is the wishful thinking, not the pioneering work SpaceX’s competitors actually accomplished? What matters is that Tesla plans to bring EVs to every household in the future, not that it’s shipped about the same number of EVs as Nissan to date?

Look at your own post for why Tesla/SpaceX engender negativity. GM revolutionized the landscape of America. Douglas Aerospace helped design the most powerful rocket ever. And you denigrate those companies and their actual achievements by pointing to the things Musk says he’s going to do. And that’s exactly how Musk has positioned himself. So is it any surprise when people react negatively to him when information is revealed that suggests a gap between promises and reality?

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#213
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't disagree with the notion of taking huge risks and going all out. Tesla and SpaceX have made the world a better place in my view, and they've definitely made the world more interesting. That said, the overhyping, recklessness and hubris at this stage on the Tesla front seems like instead of helping achieve the wildly ambitious goal, they're making it more likely to fail. If Tesla was slightly more r…

Tesla has zero impact on the world right now. And probably never will.

Isn't that self-evidently false? On at least a superficial level it's a constant part of the conversation. It has in many ways precipitated the debate around self-driving cars by putting the technology in the open (for better and worse and also it's not-quite-there but still!). There's a really strong argument to be made that Tesla has accelerated the development of electric cars at more mainstream manufacturers and pushed large-battery technology substantially forward.

Even if Tesla vanished tomorrow, it would be very hard to say it has had no impact.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#214
post #190
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some pretty massive layoffs with the merger already, leading into it, at least according to someone I know who was part of those lay offs.

And according to this article: > After the acquisition of SolarCity, Tesla had another round of layoffs to restructure and remove duplicate positions from the acquisition, which resulted in about 20% of SolarCity’s workforce being let go.

Other than the article I can't find anything that points to redundancy being the cause:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/16545956/tesla-solarcity...

Is the only other reference that I have found and articles around this time frame don't make it clear the redundancy was the cause.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#215
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I see this from the exact opposite view. I'm surprised it's taken this long for the rubber to meet the road. Tesla sells the most electric vehicles, but it's hardly the sort of delta you describe ("extremely ambitious goals, like none of their competitors do"). Nissan and Tesla both hit the 300,000 car mark in January/February of 2018. And let's not forget the recent NTSB report, which revealed that "A…

the Saturn V developed by Boeing/NAA/Douglas in the 1960s could hurl three times as much weight to the moon as the Falcon Heavy True. At more than an order of magnitude higher cost.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#216
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never understood the fandom behind a company privately launching rockets and landing the boosters? Surely you jest...

But Tesla does neither of those things.

True, but the previous comment can be adapted to Tesla: "You never understood the fandom behind a company making cars that can do 0-60 in 2.5s?"

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could be sales and marketing

Considering demand for product is outstripping their ability to produce product, their sales & marketing teams are setting a high standard of work the rest of the company has yet to meet. Feels a little unfair if they were the ones getting axed.

Sounds like the same problem you find everywher regarding engineering, programming, IT, and sales competence: if your products seem simple and bulletproof, your servers seem to never go down, your program just works intuitively, and people want your product even before they walk into the store, that does not mean you can downsize those departments. It means you should give them a raise because they're doing a great job!

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many tech workers would like their terms of employment, including compensation, to be decided by negotiations between a union and a company?

How many tech workers would stand before a judge in court and let another person represent their interests? I'm probably about as skilled at negotiating terms of my employment as I am at arguing law. Oh, I think I'm good at it, but I'll bet a union rep would laugh at my naivety. But it would appear that many tech workers not only overestimate their negotiating skills, they also think that a tech workers union would w…

Really bad analogy.

A lawyer that you hired and pay for represents your interest 100%.

A union rep represents union interest first and then your interest. But if union interest is at odd with your interest, you loose 100%.

For example when GM hit hard times UAW agreed to firing all UAW members in California factory, the one that Tesla then bought and is operating.

As you might imagine, none of the UAW members that lost their jobs wanted that outcome.

But it didn't matter what those thousands of UAW members wanted. UAW agreed to that deal with GM to save jobs of UAW members in Detroit.

See e.g. https://solidarity-us.org/atc/146/p2793/

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#219

Friendly PSA: always negotiate severance. Companies can always be forced to restructure like this or even just choose to on a whim. Pressure from the board, hiring a new CTO who wants to bring in his or her own people, etc. etc. Always make sure you are happy with what type of offsetting compensation you’ll receive in this eventuality before taking the job, and consider it a huge timesaver if an employer passes on yo…

In general, "at will" employees don't have anything to negotiate. It's strictly take it or leave it. There are no contracts unless the CEO gets involved, and the CEO won't be getting involved just for you. The hiring manager will just pass on you and move to the next-best candidate. You negotiate your starting salary, and that's it. So make sure you account for the likelihood that you will get zero notice and zero se…

You are quite simply wrong. When you negotiate severance in an at-will employment agreement, it will involve the same kinds of contractual documents you have to sign as when you are offered severance upon a sudden termination. There are usually documents relating to non-disparagement and possibly enhanced agreements about non-disclosure or non-compete that extend beyond things in the company handbook. They include specific language in which you acknowledge the employer is offering you something of material value, the severance pay, continuation of benefits, etc., in exchange for your agreement to those conditions, and generally also a waiver of ability to make claims for additional compensation.

These are generally legally enforceable, and severance is not merely a discretionary component that is up to the company. It's something you can (generally without that much trouble) actually sue for, similar to unpaid wages, if the company terminates you without paying.

I have never once heard of a company requiring a C-suite executive to get involved for creating these very routine types of severance agreements for regular employees, and I myself have negotiated severance in a standard at-will employment agreement at my three most recent jobs.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we see things differently. Contractors are not some naturally occurring mineral, a side effect of some budget. They are companies, people. At present, they are companies comfortably using their existing operations to keep doing what they've been doing since the 70s. I think that it matters who that company is, what their future strategy is. It matters that they care about reusability, creating technology that…

So what matters is the wishful thinking, not the pioneering work SpaceX’s competitors actually accomplished? What matters is that Tesla plans to bring EVs to every household in the future, not that it’s shipped about the same number of EVs as Nissan to date? Look at your own post for why Tesla/SpaceX engender negativity. GM revolutionized the landscape of America. Douglas Aerospace helped design the most powerful roc…

> So what matters is the wishful thinking, not the pioneering work SpaceX’s competitors actually accomplished?

Another way to look at it is that what matters is the pioneering work that SpaceX has actually accomplished (and stands to accomplish) that none of their competitors has (primarily, drastically lowering the cost of reaching space while achieving high and increasing launch rates).

> What matters is that Tesla plans to bring EVs to every household in the future, not that it’s shipped about the same number of EVs as Nissan to date?

Without any intended sarcasm, I would answer this question with 'yes'.

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