Live data from Hacker News

Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

51–60 of 240 posts

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#51
post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

the brain is a complex thing -- much mental illness is not well-understood, even though it is true that people suffer from dysfunction..

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#52
post #46
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clinical setting is far different than giving someone some tabs and letting them loose at a concert or house party.

A clinical setting sounds like a total nightmare when using psychedelics.

I'm not talking about a sterile windowless room with bright lights and various people walking in and out telling you to do things. More like a therapy setup, similar to how they're experimenting with MDMA. Someone who knows what they are doing guiding things, helping you explore your mind.

LSD is probably not the best drug for this simply because it lasts for so long, but guided trips using psilocybin are definitely doable (and currently happen).

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#53
Could be, maybe, let's just wait until thousands more die because they were denied access to these illegal drugs. Then we'll publish some "new" findings and maybe in 30 years, the filthy peasants will be allowed to use drugs under extreme supervision.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#54
post #53

Could be, maybe, let's just wait until thousands more die because they were denied access to these illegal drugs. Then we'll publish some "new" findings and maybe in 30 years, the filthy peasants will be allowed to use drugs under extreme supervision.

Could you please not post indignant rant-style comments like this to Hacker News? It isn't that you're wrong, but that the genre does more damage to the forum than the rightness of the comment does good. A lot more, actually, so we need people to just not do this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#55
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people just want a no-effort cure-all. Things like exercise, meditation, healthy eating--all of which can help with mental health problems--require concentrated effort over a long period of time, and thus are unlikely to be preferred over a pill. Before anyone gets upset, I'm not saying that pills are bad, I'm just saying that many rely on them without making an effort to make other positive changes to their…

"Mental health" and "making an effort" are two dangerous terms to combine in the same argument. Just getting out of bed every morning can already be a big effort for many people with mental health problems, much bigger effort than exercise is for many sane folks; it should be appreciated as such.

It's something you can't understand without experiencing yourself. Always sounds pathetic from the perspective of people who have lived their lives having okay mental health.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#56
post #37

Having controlled psychedelics could be safer - especially in the raving community where too often deaths occur from dangerously mixed and pressed substances. There has to be a more comprehensive study done on its neurotoxicity. Or more studies in general. But who will pay for it and why?

"too often deaths occur from dangerously mixed and pressed substances" - citation needed, compared to other risk factors

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#57
post #2

Or one could lift weights, which is even safer and has many positive ancillary effects. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abst...

First, why 'or'? Second, anyone who thinks psychedelics are a shortcut or an easy way to do something obviously haven't experienced them.

> anyone who thinks psychedelics are a shortcut or an easy way to do something

But this is how the early experiments with ketamine are being described - as a near instant treatment that takes a couple of hours and lasts for months.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#58
post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

"I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances."

Psychedelics have been used to treat schizophrenia and depression before. Here is an excerpt from a paper on "Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin"[1]:

The first patient we treated [with LSD] was an eleven-year-old girl who was dying of something akin to marasmus. Marasmus is a condition of wasting away of the body, where nutrients are not assimilated. It occurs in infants who have no human contact. They go into such an isolated mental state that not even intravenous feeding is effective..

The girl was actively suicidal and would make every attempt to destroy herself. She was in twenty-four-hour restraint. When let loose, she would batter herself: smash her eyes, smash her head against the rails. She looked like an old, wizened lady -- nothing but skin and bones, and battered black and blue.

So the psychiatrist said, 'Why don't you start with this girl. She's going to die anyway, so there is nothing to lose.' It was quite a challenge to take as my first patient someone who was in such a terrible situation. I was afraid that maybe she would die during the session. But I didn't have any alternative, because this was who I was given.

We didn't use low doses with any of the patients. My guess is that she got 300 or 400 micrograms [of LSD], and she weighed maybe fifty-five pounds. She was just skin and bones, and was totally incoherent. She screamed, babbled, and spat if you got near her. She was not in contact with anybody, nor had she ever been since she was hospitalized.

During the session she started wailing like a wounded animal -- it was the most chilling sound. Then she started screaming, and the pitch would increase and increase. We tried everything to make contact with her, to no avail.

After about seven or eight hours I was exhausted, and so frustrated that I just yelled at her, "Nancy! When are you going to stop screaming! I can't stand it anymore!" [laughs] She stopped and looked at me. This was the first time she had made eye contact with anybody, and said, "I have a long way to go, so just stay out of my way." That was the first thing she ever said to anybody. Then she went back to screaming. That was our session.

Hers was an amazing story, which we subsequently published. Once she started speaking, it was possible to work with her more effectively. She was a very intelligent girl, perhaps an ancient soul. She was a challenge -- conniving and manipulative -- and she gave us a run for our money. Her bottom line was always that she had control over hurting herself; this became her ace in the hole. As she improved, she would eventually just carry a Kleenex around, put it on her hand, and say that the Kleenex was stopping her from hitting herself. So we would grab the Kleenex and hide it, and she'd say: "Damn you! Damn you! Give me that napkin!" There was a whole power struggle that went on for months.

Of course, during this time she was no longer in restraints, and she could move about on the ward. She struck up a companionship with one of the other girls in the program, and she was in constant contact with the staff.

She must have had eighteen or nineteen sessions spaced apart by two or three weeks, and every session was productive. Between these sessions, we had to develop a whole treatment program for managing her, as she was extremely bright and incredibly manipulative. One time she said to me, "Well, I can't fool the day staff, but I can still fool the night staff." Then as soon as she said it, I could tell that she was thinking, "Oh my God! I've given myself away!" I looked at her and said, "That's not going to last very long, is it?" And she said, "Damn you!" So, that night I got together with the evening staff and clued them in on what to do, because she was still manipulating the hell out of them. Talk about a tough patient! But she was no longer hurting herself. And although she remained in the hospital, she got well enough to attend school.

[1] - http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#59
post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

It's very likely the benefits being reported on in the article are present in doses far lower than the high recreational doses you're referring to.

Your concerns are more relevant to the higher, hallucinogenic doses.

All medicines have a dose:response curve with a dangerous response zone starting somewhere along the increasing dose axis.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#60
post #42
post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition rather than a prime cause for these types of mental issues.

> The general consensus is

Your consensus might be general among irresponsible psychonauts that are either lucky or accept psychosis.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede...

The general consensus is to use psychedelics only as part of a therapy under supervision of a medical expert.

https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit...

> an extremely small portion of the population

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers

> typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition

How does this reduce the danger of psychedelics in any way ? It increases the danger because you do not know in advance if the drug will trigger a mental disorder that you do not have yet.

A bad trip triggered by psychedelics might be your first trauma with PTSD.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/36gj2h/can_ptsd_be_c...

Post reply on HN