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Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

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Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#161

Post by coredog64 »

throwaway435388 wrote: post #4
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

Exactly, turning them into parking spaces comes to mind in areas where parking is awful. Museums or even a botanical garden. It's hard to feel bad for landlords who throw in the towel before thinking outside the box. I'm sure online retail giants wouldn't mind buying more warehouse space in prime locations either.

Retail could turn their model on it's head. Rather than consumers coming to the mall, retailer has micro depot and delivers to local customers. The only question is whether or not you can make use of all the parking. If not, then probably not capturing the entire value of the existing infrastructure.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#162

Post by gist »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #130

Here's an anecdote about my experience at a mall yesterday. I needed some new shoes: I went to the Skechers store. There were 4 people working. Not a single one ever offered to help me. I had to walk up to the counter and the girl looked shocked when I asked her to get me my size to try on. She handed me the box and walked away. I never saw her again and walked out without making a purchase. I went over to Macy's to…

> Stores in a mall have a real opportunity to win on personal service and instant gratification. Hire someone to help me find shoes

You say that as if it's possible in the same way as advice such as 'find a good lawyer'

1) Assumes that if you are helpful customers won't suck up an extraordinary amount of time and that it will pay off in the end (might not)

2) Assumes paying for a better person will result in more sales (may not)

3) Assumes qualified people even want this job (there may be none)

I am not disputing in a perfect world you are right and that better help you will end up with more sales and higher profit. But generally it's not low hanging fruit or very easy. Typically stores that do this well are more specialty stores where the workforce loves the product and will accept lower pay and likes to get the same questions over and over again. (Like an REI store or a bike shop ..) Also the margin on the product matters. Remember rent in malls is very high.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#163

Post by rtkwe »

enobrev wrote: post #153
thethirdone wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Are you incapable of finding the right size shoes yourself? The boxes are usually laid out fairly logically and it's pretty rare for there to actually be anything of use "in the back". Having large feet, its pretty common for shoes not to have something in my size in the front, but maybe 50% of the time there are shoes in my size in the back.

It's very rare that I shop for shoes in person any more, but the few times I've found myself in a shoe store in the past few years, I'll generally just ask a rep to bring me or point out everything they have in a size 14, which usually ends up being 2-3 pairs. The best places will understand immediately - some will even know off-hand which ones they have in larger sizes. Most of the time, the rep will respond with an…

Wonder if their initial reticence might come partially from shitty software making it hard to find all available shoes of a given size across all styles?

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#164

Post by olliej »

schnevets wrote: post #55
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

I'm surprised no one has proposed a vertical farm yet. You've got plenty of storage/shipment zones, diverse levels of sunlight, an intricate climate-control system, and plenty of parking to expand/convert into a solar farm. Then you maintain the food court as a locavore destination

Return on farming basically return on acreage, which means it’s directly tied to the cost of the land. There’s no real way to make a farm economically viable in a high land value area. Going vertical would make the land even more expensive

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#165

Post by Figs »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #121
badgers wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'd want to live in an old mall, but I could see them being purposed for office space. Parking is already taken care of, and most have bus routes already in place. The existing food court would be ready for new tenants. Other types of tenants could fill where other retail (e.g. clothing, toys) once occupied, such as a gym/fitness company, FedEx/UPS offices, office supply stores, etc.

Yep, never understood why they don’t convert malls into office spaces. Then again, in the Bay Area (at least South Bay) there are TONS of empty office buildings for rent. I’m guessing that they all just want too much. Maybe it’s a zoning thing with the malls? Seems like they could do it with the one in Cupertino. For being Silicon Valley, sometimes this place really fails to impress with innovations like that. Instea…

Sometimes malls are converted to office space. According to the documentary, Making of Riven, Cyan repurposed a strip mall as office space while they were waiting for the construction of a real office. They originally started out in some guy's garage after finishing Myst and crammed 12 people in there, then moved into the strip mall -- which they said was "like heaven" by comparison, but they didn't just stay in the strip mall because it was still too small for all the staff they wanted to bring on.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#166

Post by NikolaeVarius »

user5994461 wrote: post #155
mdorazio wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate here... 1) Are you incapable of finding the right size shoes yourself? The boxes are usually laid out fairly logically and it's pretty rare for there to actually be anything of use "in the back". 2) Hiring people to provide the level of service you're asking for would significantly increase the cost of labor over the minimum wage kids that usually staff these stores. I'm fairly certain the co…

I don't know what kind of stores you are used to but there is usually only one shoe on display. All the pairs are kept in the back of the store, you cannot try anything without help from the salesperson.

I'm not much of a shoe person, but I have literally never been to or heard of a place like this.

Including places like Modells, Macy's, Payless, Sports Authority, etc etc etc

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#167

Post by cesarb »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #166
user5994461 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what kind of stores you are used to but there is usually only one shoe on display. All the pairs are kept in the back of the store, you cannot try anything without help from the salesperson.

I'm not much of a shoe person, but I have literally never been to or heard of a place like this. Including places like Modells, Macy's, Payless, Sports Authority, etc etc etc

Perhaps it's a cultural difference? Every shoe store I've been to in my whole life is like the parent poster mentioned: there's one pair of each model on display behind glass, and the salesperson goes to the back to get the boxes in your size.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#168

Post by [deleted] »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #130

Here's an anecdote about my experience at a mall yesterday. I needed some new shoes: I went to the Skechers store. There were 4 people working. Not a single one ever offered to help me. I had to walk up to the counter and the girl looked shocked when I asked her to get me my size to try on. She handed me the box and walked away. I never saw her again and walked out without making a purchase. I went over to Macy's to…

[deleted]

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#169

Post by gamblor956 »

user5994461 wrote: post #155
mdorazio wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate here... 1) Are you incapable of finding the right size shoes yourself? The boxes are usually laid out fairly logically and it's pretty rare for there to actually be anything of use "in the back". 2) Hiring people to provide the level of service you're asking for would significantly increase the cost of labor over the minimum wage kids that usually staff these stores. I'm fairly certain the co…

I don't know what kind of stores you are used to but there is usually only one shoe on display. All the pairs are kept in the back of the store, you cannot try anything without help from the salesperson.

It depends on the store. Some only have display shoes, others have display shoes and sized pairs below them. Generally, the more upscale the store (or the more likely goods are to be stolen) the more likely it is that shoes will be kept in back.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#170

Post by bigpicture »

ianferrel wrote: post #97
CharlesMerriam2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure. Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

> Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing. Are developers expected to build those? Don't cities build roads, schools, parks, and police stations with the tax income from the people who live in the houses?

> Are developers expected to build those?

Sure, maybe. Offering to build them for the city is a great way to build goodwill for your project.

If you want to see the ridiculousness of building in the Bay Area, however, you only need to compare this project with another large project proposal somewhere else:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/5/11/17340660/the-78-related...

This is nearly the exact same size parcel as the mall in Cupertino. But they are proposing 10,000 housing units and 13 million square feet of development (5x as much). The article calls it "surprisingly low density". But the plans include a new transit station, new roads, many acres of public space, etc. What it will come down to, though, is that the city will say "if you build this, we'll build that". The elementary school that will serve this development is already under construction. So it's likely that the developer will pay for at least half of the train station - it would be significantly more expensive than a school because it is underground at that point.

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