Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#41

Post by koube » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

nonbel wrote: post #29

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

>"mental frailty...they begin to question everything" As opposed to blindly "believe everything"? I would say the ability to question everything is evidence of a strong independent adult mind. The ability to just believe everything you are told isn't really "frail" (which I associate with old age and wisdom), but still weak in a childlike sense.

Over time people build up useful heuristics. There is a difference between questioning authority vs questioning why tuesdays exist and if maybe it's sunday for dogs.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#42

Post by stouset » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition rather than a prime cause for these types of mental issues.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#43

Post by notnot » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

"I'm really worried"

The first rule of psychedelics: don't worry.

How to not worry? Relax. Keep the body at peace. Be simple. Stay in the heart (stay with how you're feeling, not just with what you're seeing/experiencing). Let go. You cannot lose yourself because you are always yourself. Be grateful for the incredibly valuable experience you're having, even if it's difficult.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#44

Post by vole » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

jvandyke wrote: post #27

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

For further reading, LSD: My problem child by Albert Hofmann is also interesting

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#45

Post by scarecrowbob » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

If it helps, here are a couple of things that you might consider:

- you likely know a lot of people who actively or in the past were experimenting with psychedelics, but you don't know that you know them because it is socially taboo and their experiences aren't super relavent to how you are interacting with them

- if you can accept that idea, then you might also consider that given a larger population of people who've tried it with few ill effects your anecdotal sample might not be an accurate representation of the psychedelic experience.

That second point would reconcile the "strange fervor for others to try it, even from people who have had bad trips."

There are indeed plenty of people mental health issues floating around, and while it's true that you may or may not know if these drugs will trigger a larger episode, that kind of life altering aspect of psychedelics not very common in my experience as a person who knows hundreds of people who have worked or played with these substances.

Those ideas are also based in my anecdotal experince, and perhaps it comes from a willingness to question some "fundamental axioms from scratch", but at the same time maybe that's a) not always a bad thing to do from time to time, and b) if your fundamental axioms are good there is no reason that you won't come back to them.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#46

Post by 3131s » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #16

kneel wrote: post #9

I've had great experiences with LSD, experiences that may have even changed my trajectory in life. That being said I would never recommend LSD to someone undergoing serious mental health issues. IMO not safe at all, you can really end up in a bad place.

A clinical setting is far different than giving someone some tabs and letting them loose at a concert or house party.

A clinical setting sounds like a total nightmare when using psychedelics.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#47

Post by omarchowdhury » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #40

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

So you haven't done it, you have no studies to back this idea, but you just assume it's going to be a problem somehow.. So-called "bad trips" can be tremendously beneficial afterwards. They're "bad" because you get into the kind of deep, uncomfortable introspection that most people would want to avoid naturally. You learn things about yourself and the world that you probably wouldn't have wanted to know. That doesn't…

Bad trip: Despair. Good trip: Delight.

Aren't these both apart of life?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#48

Post by eganist » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #42

wincy wrote: post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition rather than a prime cause for these types of mental issues.

Do you have citations for the following?

• extremely small portion

• trigger for a pre-existing condition

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#49

Post by GuB-42 » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #4

But how can a drug company patent that?

The LSD (Delysid) patent has long expired, however, there is no shortage of psychedelics yet to be patented.

The back market produces new drugs on a regular basis in order to work around legislation. Legitimate drug companies can do the same (but with proper studies) for the sake of patenting.

And even if existing molecules turn out best, there is always a small tweak that can be made. Adderall for instance is good old amphetamine, but with a specific isomer ratio and salts, so it can be patented.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#50

Post by nonbel » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

koube wrote: post #41

nonbel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"mental frailty...they begin to question everything" As opposed to blindly "believe everything"? I would say the ability to question everything is evidence of a strong independent adult mind. The ability to just believe everything you are told isn't really "frail" (which I associate with old age and wisdom), but still weak in a childlike sense.

Over time people build up useful heuristics. There is a difference between questioning authority vs questioning why tuesdays exist and if maybe it's sunday for dogs.

>"questioning why tuesdays exist"

I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Just some stream of thought:

What does tuesday mean anyway, why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week, what is the exact definition of day, could there be planets without "days", do dogs recognize a weekly cycle, would they if "freerunning" without human companionship, what about wolves who "howl at the moon", does that mean they recognize the lunar cycle, in that case maybe they also mentally divide it up into subsets greater than a day but less than a full month, how could we study wolf behaviour to try to figure this out, why exactly do I feel like there is a difference between sunday and tuesday, just because one is during the weekend or something more, do wild packs of wolves/dogs take regular days off from hunting/etc, what do they do in their free time?