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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#841

Post by angersock »

manigandham wrote: post #796
angersock wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a lonely road because of decisions they made themselves. Maybe if they stopped treating themselves like some anointed class and shared the equity with their employees instead of viewing them like lower-class citizens it wouldn't be so hard to find comrades.

Employees aren't friends and really shouldn't be. Maybe you've had a bad experience with some founders, they certainly are just as varied as people, but the role itself is anything but easy.

> Employees aren't friends and really shouldn't be.

That's a fine view to take! But don't come rattling the cup around going "but poor founders, so lonely, nobody to talk to" when they've made that choice.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#842

Post by Zaheer »

pvarangot wrote: post #793
isuckatcoding wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Glassdoor and Angellist are not good sources but nowhere have I found any kind of jobs with that level of compensation. Then again, 100k-250k is a HUGE range and I imagine the distribution is heavily skewed towards the lower end.

200k is not hard to get in the bay if you have more than 4/5 years experience in a similar position or more than 8/9 years experience in the industry. For most unicorns that's the 75% percentile for base compensation in Sr. Software Engineer roles. Edit for data: base at Google is 191k so I'm not that off with my estimation https://www.paysa.com/salaries/google--senior-software-engin...

There's several good data-points on compensation here: https://goo.gl/iHw7cj

It's also broken down by area of focus (ex. ML / AI pays exorbitantly well right now).

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#843

Post by Joeri »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #758
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Maybe engineers are more replaceable than founders? That would explain why founders walk away with a lot more cash and credit. After all, there are a lot of good engineers who probably would do a good job as an early employee. And relatively few people who have the vision, motivation, and skill to create a successful company. That said, I sometimes feel that being a successful founder has less to do with skill and mo…

I get the sense that with the right set of employees all a founder has to do to be successful is not to run in the way. One might argue that in that case they were so brilliant at hiring they deserve the payout. Anyway, who is to say where the line is drawn between founders and employees re: who contributes most? As long as both sides know what they’re getting in to nobody is taken advantage of.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#845

Post by angersock »

snowmaker wrote: post #836
aiisahik wrote: post #726

I was a lawyer for a big SV law firm for 2.5 years doing company options, VC funding rounds and M&A. Then I was an early employee and engineer for a startup 5 years. I've seen this from multiple angles and the folks with a lot of startup experience will tell you that it's not worth the money - you're doing it mostly for non-monetary rewards. Engineers deciding between FAANG or a startup should not kid themselves with…

I like the idea to use YC's dataset to calculate expected outcomes based on actual historicals a lot. That's a great idea! Options have been mentioned before - we 100% agree we need to fix this and are going to work on it. https://blog.samaltman.com/employee-equity

And again, remember, the important thing here isn't only the upside for the founders, but also for the early employees.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#846

Post by mkirklions »

docker_up wrote: post #639
mkirklions wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how sustainable this is. Its 400k while their stock price is crazy high. But If we really are in a tech bubble, that money is back to the typically 80-120k of most tech jobs.

Facebook and Google and others make their money globally. They don't actually make a lot of money from Silicon Valley that's just where their workers are. I can't think of a more diversified, protected stream of income than one of the FANGs right now, even if the US has a recession, there are still countries around the world that will be doing better.

>I can't think of a more diversified, protected stream of income than one of the FANGs

Arent they 100% tech and nearly 0 physical products?

That is not what I learned 'diversification' is.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#847

Post by derwiki »

comvidyarthi wrote: post #169
0wl3x wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is the compensation really like this for a mid level engineer at a FAANG? I'm still fairly new into my career and I can't believe that the enterprise money is sooo much better than the startup world. I'm currently earning around 120k a year with health insurance and no equity. Should I really be designing on trading up into a nice big enterprise job?

If you are in FAANG, and in bay area, then your numbers look too low. I know mid-level engineers in bay area, can make ~300k. All this assuming a good engineer who has been performing consistently, and is among the top 10% in his/her team.

Mid-level and in the top 10%?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#848

Post by mariusz331 »

docker_up wrote: post #642
mariusz331 wrote: post #216

I'd like to recommend something: discourage 1-year cliffs in vesting schedules. I recently joined a BigCo where your stock vests monthly as soon as you start. I felt comfortable accepting that offer because I knew I could quit without leaving money on the table if I hated it. Before BigCo, I was at a YC startup for 8 months that I disliked working at, but felt that I needed to hit the 1-year mark for the equity. That…

Sounds like Cap Table hell. If you're only there for 3 months, why should you get rewarded when chances are you didn't contribute anything to the company? I think a 1 year cliff makes even more sense for a startup than an established company because you really should contribute something before hitting the cap table as someone with employee options.

I think you can contribute a meaningful amount to a startup in 3 months. Arguably the top reason to join a startup is to make faster impact. I'm not saying this is possible at all startups, but most startups yes.

Options/equity are a component of your compensation and I'm questioning the reasons we wait a year to get it. I think it would be more employee-friendly to smooth out the vesting schedule.

Startups seem to be having a hard time finding talent (probably why this thread was started). Everyone already thinks you work on more interesting problems and make more impact at a startup, but it seems like those reasons alone aren't attractive enough right now. If startups can't pay $300k/yr cash, then they need to think outside the box to entice people to join.

What burned me working at startups was the 1-year cliff and 3-month exercise window after leaving. I'd consider working for a startup again if those two disadvantages changed. Until then, I'm very happy at BigCorp.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#849

Post by akhilcacharya »

didibus wrote: post #718
neutrino7 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so Texas is technically in the South... you got me. I suppose I should have clarified: major southeastern cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, D.C., Nashville, Miami)

Apple and Amazon could end up choosing Raleigh for their HQ2. So maybe that'll soon change.

I've only ever lived in Raleigh and I'm very skeptical they'll pick Raleigh for HQ2.

I'll be very excited if Apple ends up deciding on Raleigh though, it could easily push up salaries significantly.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#850

Post by manigandham »

angersock wrote: post #841
manigandham wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees aren't friends and really shouldn't be. Maybe you've had a bad experience with some founders, they certainly are just as varied as people, but the role itself is anything but easy.

> Employees aren't friends and really shouldn't be. That's a fine view to take! But don't come rattling the cup around going "but poor founders, so lonely, nobody to talk to" when they've made that choice.

You seem to be missing the point, as the prior comments are talking about "social connections" that founders get as a significant benefit, and which I'm saying isn't true.

Nobody is complaining really, certainly not the founders who chose what they do. In fact it seems like people who aren't founders that are complaining about the supposed benefits and lack of work without actually understanding what it entails.

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