Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#831

Post by ianamartin » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #740

anonu wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be a founder, even if you have no experience. Easier said than done. Lots of people leave school without the faintest clue what they want to do. Getting a job somewhere gives people training and experience and maybe even credibility before they strike it out on their own.

Me and my previous co-founder founded a startup with both of us having no experience. It was a very bad decision for the company, but extremely valuable for our personal growth. It also allowed us to skip the biggest parts of the usual career ladder. It's certainly not the best route for everyone, but definitely one worth considering.

It's great for you. It's pretty bad for any employees who have to pay for your mistakes as you get your personal growth on and skip career ladders.

I think being a founder is a great option right out of school--if you are working for yourself, responsible for your own mistakes, and not actively harming anyone else in your quest for personal achievement.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#832

Post by snowmaker » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

midasz wrote: post #771

snowmaker wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I'm reading all the replies :). I agree with you very much that a real issue is myths that simply aren't true, or aren't universally true - working hours in particular.

Also compiling?

Definitely!

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#833

Post by lbriner » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

Early employees get to decide on a gamble: Do I want equity in return for probably less salary and do I want to get load of influence on the technology in return for a higher expectation that I can deliver it?

A more general difficulty is that a good employee might not want to work for you because they don't know that they are a good fit and plenty of poor employees might say anything they can to convince you to hire them because they like the sound of a startup even though they cannot deliver what's needed.

The missing part of recruitment (from personal experience!) is how to quantify what skills are needed in a startup (multiple hats, big picture, time commitment, understanding of the whole business, not just the tech, pragmatism in spades and the idea that growth is assumed and will need to be managed - ideally with early employees being the Managers) and how can the applicant 'prove' they can meet these?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#834

Post by lbriner » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Not everybody that is an early employee adds to the company value! Some people are not so bad they get fired but they are living off of other people's input. Before you start giving away more equity to early employees, you need to seriously think about how you are going to make the employee earn that e.g. if they leave before 3 years, they lose it, if they fail appraisals, they lose it etc. Many companies go bad because they do give away too much equity then there's not enough left for subsequent raises.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#835

Post by toephu2 » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #662

toephu2 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Overall, top tech pay about the same." No, they do not. Again, obviously you have never worked at a FANG company otherwise you would probably realize this. It's quite a well known fact in the Valley that FB/Google pay much better than MSFT/AMZN.

You seem bitter for some reason. I wish you well. FYI, I got offers from FANG companies, specifically the ones you mentioned. There used to be a gap, but on the last round the AMZN numbers were effectively the same as Google's. My guess is that over the last few years they faced the necessity to pay equally. I have friends working at MSFT in the Bay and their current pay also falls in line with the numbers mentioned…

Your sample size of 1 or a couple does not refute my statement about not all top tech pay the same.

I think you are quite the bitter one trying to refute every single one of my comments.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#836

Post by snowmaker » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #726

I was a lawyer for a big SV law firm for 2.5 years doing company options, VC funding rounds and M&A. Then I was an early employee and engineer for a startup 5 years. I've seen this from multiple angles and the folks with a lot of startup experience will tell you that it's not worth the money - you're doing it mostly for non-monetary rewards. Engineers deciding between FAANG or a startup should not kid themselves with…

I like the idea to use YC's dataset to calculate expected outcomes based on actual historicals a lot. That's a great idea!

Options have been mentioned before - we 100% agree we need to fix this and are going to work on it. https://blog.samaltman.com/employee-equity

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#837

Post by heurist » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

ianamartin wrote: post #831

hobofan wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me and my previous co-founder founded a startup with both of us having no experience. It was a very bad decision for the company, but extremely valuable for our personal growth. It also allowed us to skip the biggest parts of the usual career ladder. It's certainly not the best route for everyone, but definitely one worth considering.

It's great for you. It's pretty bad for any employees who have to pay for your mistakes as you get your personal growth on and skip career ladders. I think being a founder is a great option right out of school--if you are working for yourself, responsible for your own mistakes, and not actively harming anyone else in your quest for personal achievement.

FWIW I've worked with "experienced" founders who also had no idea what they were doing (in many but not all ways). There's never a guarantee that you won't be working for people who will make you deal with their mistakes.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#838

Post by readhn » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

>> Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

i dont see how they are different from 2017, 2016 ... etc.

There is nothing special about start ups its just another business so consider it like one.

I'll distill it down to simple level. Working for a startup or any company is like working for a pizza joint. Consider there are 3 pizza joints in town and you know how to make pizza sauce. Which pizza joint would you choose? Why?

- The one that pays more - The one that has better hours - The one that has better work environment/culture - The one with the owner that is not an asshole - The one that has a better potential for personal growth

plus whatever else you think is important.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#839

Post by eleventyone1 » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

One of the real cons of joining a startup that doesn't grow fast is that the founders of the startup will structure the acquisition so that the early employees get nothing. I'm talking about the "well the company has no value after paying back the investors, but the founders and their friends got sweet hiring deals at newco that otherwise they would have had to share with the other employees" sort of quasi-acquihires.

I've been through two of those (and successfully forced the acquiring company to give me $ in one of them because of how venally obvious the deal was.) I hear of these sorts of things happening relatively frequently. It's a real reason that I probably wouldn't participate in another startup.

For me personally, it isn't the risk of failure that keeps me from joining another startup as an early engineer. It's the risk that the founders will cut a deal in an acquisition that cuts out the early employees.

This would also be good for the acquiring company, they have a large risk in cutting a deal just for the founders. In one of the cases that I know of, the acquihire was a disaster because the founders represented to the company that they had the expertise that rested within the early employees and it ended with a great deal of waste.

So, fix this issue and I think you'll see better results overall.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#840

Post by softawre » Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

eismcc wrote: post #415

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #25

Open plan offices and general lack of a quiet, contemplative, professional working environment is the hugest con to me, even huger than the compensation issues pointed out by other commentors. I would look to start-ups to be leading the effort to improve industry practices for software development ergonomy and human-centric working spaces (i.e. focus on privacy, quiet and individual customizability). But instead, sta…

Private offices are great, sort of. I haven’t had one in the last 15yrs in both big and small companies. I find it surprising that you have had access to this “benefit.”

I work in a software company in the midwest, we've had private offices for the last 10 years.