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Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

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Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#91

Post by CharlesMerriam2 »

guyzero wrote: post #47
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

Zoning can be an issue - there's an abandoned mall in Cupertino that's probably half a mile from the new Apple HQ. And to say it's prime land is an understatement - the entire area is desperate for new housing. Current proposal is for 2,400 housing units on the land. But previous zoning proposal that were ballot initiatives got defeated (hurray democracy) and it's required a state bill to force the city's hand for zo…

I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure.

Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#92

Post by beiller »

projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

Build Houses, just a thought.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#93

Post by jdonaldson »

It's hard to explain how important malls were to some of my younger colleagues, or to folks who didn't grow up in some no-name midwestern suburb like I did. Malls were temples and town squares. They were facebook. They were the internet. Virtually all of your exposure to the "outside world" happened there.

Malls were incredibly well built and thought through. They were the crown jewel for many mid-size towns (perhaps next to sports stadiums). They boasted large, secure, climate controlled areas, often in places that had dramatic seasonal weather changes. They were a constant.

I think they represent a tremendous bargain, provided a good deal is struck, and someone knows what to do with the space. However, the window for this to happen is small. Spaces that are that large that fall into disrepair often are unsalvageable.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#94

Post by mi100hael »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #63
codingdave wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoning is a matter of negotiation with the city council. If you are going to bring literally dozens of new employers and hundreds of jobs to a struggling smaller town, and revitalize their old mall, I can just about guarantee they will cooperate, including developing a new zone just for the project if needed.

It's not that easy. Having highly restrictive zoning that makes this sort of thing a big pain in the but is going to be a fairly good indicator of whether or not the government has a "we tell you what to do, you don't negotiate with us" type of attitude.

I'd be surprised if it's not that easy in most jurisdictions. Failing/empty malls are a huge waste of space and an eyesore. I can't imagine a city council not jumping at the opportunity to turn one around even if it meant leasing some of it as office space.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#95

Post by duxup »

kirbypineapple wrote: post #89
duxup wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember traveling to work to the valley for the first time and driving by Apple HQ just to see it and then, going to the steakhouse near that mall (OMG was it good). I went by that mall and was thinking "WTF is this doing here with all this insanely expensive land and such!?!?!" I would half expect the bulldozers to show up with 10 minutes notice or something. I was driving around all amazed by "OMG I know all the…

Was it Alexanders steak house? If so I did the same thing (drive by Apple HQ to see it and stopped at Alexanders).

Yup Alexanders! So yummy!

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#96

Post by excalibur »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #82
excalibur wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things already serve most shopping malls. The idea was that the venue would provide everything people needed to keep them happy until they sober up, but they would of course be free to leave by means that don't involve DUI.

> The idea was that the venue would provide everything people needed to keep them happy until they sober up Then they should offer up sleeping accommodations, too. While I know that in most places, you legally can't serve someone who's already intoxicated, in practice few people go to a bar to get slightly tipsy. If I'm going for a night out, I'm not going to be ready to drive again until morning.

Agreed. That's why I suggested two different types of sleeping accommodations: A nice one for occasions where you're not necessarily alone (or sleeping), and a more bare-bones one for when you just want a place to crash.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#97

Post by ianferrel »

CharlesMerriam2 wrote: post #91
guyzero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoning can be an issue - there's an abandoned mall in Cupertino that's probably half a mile from the new Apple HQ. And to say it's prime land is an understatement - the entire area is desperate for new housing. Current proposal is for 2,400 housing units on the land. But previous zoning proposal that were ballot initiatives got defeated (hurray democracy) and it's required a state bill to force the city's hand for zo…

I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure. Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

> Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

Are developers expected to build those? Don't cities build roads, schools, parks, and police stations with the tax income from the people who live in the houses?

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#99

Post by CodeCube »

perkee wrote: post #90
Chinjut wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love too live in the VC mall, "The Company Town, But Tech!™".

Yeah convenient as having your residence, work, and some shopping in one building would be, it's got paid-in-scrip written all over it. Also where do you meet new people? Where do you go on dates? Malls are rarely walkable from other places.

See: any big-tech corporate campus

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#100

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #80
heckanoobs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The land is probably more valuable than the building configuration. It's a little different from the pipe example in that way. You can't easily tear up the pipes and do something else with the pipeway, but you could demolish a mall and build an entire live/work district.

Yeah the land is valuable. The building (and sea of parking) on it is built using last century thinking. Rezone and densify, and build a mixed use walkable community of residential commercial and office.

Some comment here on HN a month or so ago clarified this for me. It's more efficient to have a delivery truck go around to ten different houses than it is to have each of ten different vehicles drive from their houses to a central location.

Now if only there were some way to do that with people, not just with stuff (cough mumble public transit cough).

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