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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#761

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Seconded.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not Google and not Silicon Valley. Try: http://www.h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Google&job=Staff+Softwa... And keep in mind that base salary (what's reported on that page) is usually about half of total compensation. (Bonus and stock being the other half.) Also this appears to be the H1B database. I'm not sure how H1B salaries compare to the overall average.

> I'm not sure how H1B salaries compare to the overall average. H1B salaries are typically lower than average. Why do you think companies spend millions lobbying for more H1Bs? To pay them more than average? :-) Also, keep in mind Google only has to disclose base salaries for these H1Bs. For a staff engineer, most of the total comp would be in bonus pay and especially RSUs. They can easily be making $400k or more thr…

> To pay them more than average?

No, to get a bigger talent pool.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#763
It seems like net share settlement for employee option exercise would benefit early employees considerably without really costing the issuing company much. For example, if I have options to purchase 100 shares at $1 each and current market value is $2, instead of me having to pay $100 to exercise I can pay in shares, so I instead end up with 50 shares of stock ($200 current value minus $100 to exercise, so I get net $100 in value, $100 / $2 = 50 shares).

This is pretty common in the convertible bond world. When I first learned that employees had to write a check to exercise that sounded crazy to me. I’m curious why net share settlement doesn’t seem to really exist in the startup world. Maybe due to the difficulty in determining current market price?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#764
post #9

I echo the comp aspect. I pretty much had a best case non-unicorn startup exit; wonderful benefits pre-acquisition, actual unlimited PTO, and normal ~40hr/workweek, acquired almost immediately after receiving my shares, golden handcuffs after. My total comp was more or less equivalent to my peers doing the big 4 grind over the same time period. They had zero risk and I had to win the start up lotto. But if I had to d…

>But if I had to do it all over again, I still might do the startup route. It's just more fun. There's more to life than money. Easy to say because you have gotten the money. :-D

Yeah and it’s one hundred percent true. If the story wasn’t “I won the lottery” but instead was “I missed out big time” that may change things significantly

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#765
I have found that working for startups, that unless you're the team lead or the only dev, there is usually very little room for growth or advancement. The annual pay increases are terrible and the employee turnover rate is usually quite high.

These pros/cons are based of my own experiences (I'm based in the UK).

The pros: - Come into work whenever you like (within reason) - Working with latest tech - company culture is usually great - Your team are usually very motivated and passionate about what they do - The challenges you usually face are exciting and interesting - Being present when the company meets new milestones is very satisfying

The cons: - Sometimes the features requested doesn't have enough information. This leads to the development team to either chase management for more information or make do with the information thats there. Which then leads to complaints or feedback after the work has completed (which could've been outlined before the work started) - Management usually want to know the fastest way to do a feature and then claim to allocate time to deal with the technical debt later (it usually never happens) - Management also doesn't prioritize the stabiliy of the application which in turn can lead to more issues and bugs along the way. - Deadlines get shorter and stricter as the company gains momentum. As a result you're expected to do more overtime or work later if you fall behind. There is usually no room for error here. - Work/life balance is not so great - Doesn't provide great benefits such as pensions/healthcare/dental - No room for advancement

I don't think its too bad working in a startup, but once I became employed to a (self-funded) medium sized company, their culture seemed significally better. They provided all the pros outlined above and had fewer cons. Work/Life balance was much better, allowing us to work from home or flexibility to do so if we needed to be home for a delivery or take the car to the garage for example.

Also, its more relaxed. While there were deadlines, we're also not encouraged to rush anything, we were the ones who dictated how long it takes to add a feature and set our own deadlines based on the complexity of the feature. We also had the ability to push back the roadmap accordingly if necessary in order to make sure something is done right. The reason for this is that bugs or issues can really damage the companies repuation and so its pretty important we take our time and do all the due-diligence required before our releases.

I suspect working for a self-funded company is better because the clients/customers are already there or on-boarded. There is no/little pressure from the shareholders or investors to get things done quickly. I would imagine that a startup has a lot to prove and so needs to impress in order to get more funding.

Note that these are my personal experiences, I've only worked for 4 startups but I've had very similar experiences with all of them. If Startups are able to at least alieviate all of the cons I've outlined above then I would be happy.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#766
post #205
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What also comes into the picture here is the extremely high cost of living in the Bay Area. Even startups have to offer $200k in non-"maybe" compensation to make sure people can afford living here. Even a relatively small size startup with 50 people now already has $10 million in salary costs per year (not even counting taxes, benefits, etc.). So overall the balance is tilted very much in favor of the big companies t…

Which raises the ancient Quan - why are startups so reluctant, as a species, to establish remote teams? How come VCs are even allowing their investees to pay bubbly rents and wages?

VCs are landlords in Silicon Valley. They money startup employees pay in rent often goes back to them so I guess they don't mind high wages that much as they are benefiting from sky high rent by renting out their real estate.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#767
I consulted for a certain 'unicorn startup' based in India during their stealth stage. I joined another (now defunct) startup as employee #2. Worked my @$$ off for 3 years before I called it quits. From my own experience:

Pros: - No layers of management BS

- Startups seem to be more flexible about work hours and remote work

- More wiggle room to experiment; open to embracing new tech

Cons:

- Inexperienced leads, managers, CXOs. I can't stress this enough.

- Uncertainty. You gotta have a bag packed, ready to hit the streets at short notice

- Slog it out as an 'early employee' for years and watch the company go down the drain. That is the story of most startups. The chances of making it big are astronomically low.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#768
I think there's a bit of confusion around what market comp is. It doesn't matter that Facebook, Apple, etc. are willing to pay top of market at $500k - while they're big firms who employ a lot of people, I'd wager they're still not the majority of the labor market. It is also unrealistic to suggest that the "average" engineer has a high chance of being hired there.

I suspect true "market" rates are between $120-200k, depending on the seniority of the employee and the stage of the firm. A lot lower once you step away from US Pacific.

I think the best reason to be an early employee at a startup is if you plan on founding your own startup one day and want to get some hands-on experience. You won't make the strategic decisions, but you'll have easy access to the founders and will get to learn a lot about how to set up and run a company (both good and bad).

So why not just found your own company? Well, here are a few reasons: (a) you need financing but don't know how fundraising works and don't have a network to tap (b) you don't know how sales works (c) you don't have a good co-founder lined up (d) you're still a junior engineer and don't feel confident you could build a product by yourself (e) you haven't found a problem that excites you enough to feel justified working on.

I also notice a heavy trend in the comments here towards: employees should be rewarded almost as much as founders. I'm sorry, but no. A good founder will likely have spent years researching and understanding the problem space before finally trying to set up a company for it. They may be paying you with their own money. At the very least they had to starve long enough to raise enough money to pay you. They've taken on pain and risk. If you want to get equity comparable to a founder, go work for a pre-seed startup for free. In other words, if you want founder stakes, go be a founder.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#769

-A perspective from Chicago- Early stage engineer at startups (including a unicorn): pros: Fun work, you learn a ton, unlimited PTO (if you can actually use it), lavish benefits like free lunch, decent company culture, opportunities to try new things. cons: Poor work life balance, low chance of a bonus, low equity if any, poor management/leadership, lots of hand wavey bs about being number 1, poor career progression,…

Everywhere I've seen/experienced unlimited PTO has been utter BS. Usually there's a culture along with it of 'not taking too much time off' which kind of defeats the point. Would rather have a fixed number of days with a min required per year and maybe some year to year rollover/accrual of extra days for years of service.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of us don't want to work for them regardless of pay.

I'm not sure "plenty". More like "few".

My experience of working in startups is that they're populated almost entirely by people who openly mock the idea of 'selling out' by working for a big firm. Maybe that's just the places I've worked (that tend to either be in creative sectors or 'worthy' industries like education).

I'd be curious to see a poll on this though.

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