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Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

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Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#181
post #37

From previous: " In nations in the West, an important limiting factor is the ability to get one’s own apartment. That is, the ratio of average male wage to average rent. In the USA, the happiest year for this ratio was 1958, when people were spending 22% of their income on rent, on average. Not by coincidence, this was the peak year of the Baby Boom. In some sense, it was the best year in history to be a young white…

In pretty much every analysis involving housing costs, I try to mention that percentage of income spent on housing is not a great metric. A better metric is absolute income minus housing costs. All else being equal, I would gladly earn $1 million per year and spend 75% of it on rent, because that remaining 25% would be a heck of a lot of money. I doubt this metric would significantly change the conclusions of this ar…

[deleted]

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#182

There's correlation here, but likely not causation. The real underlying cause in the drop in birth rates is an increase in working hours, an increase in commuting times, an increase in college tuition and health care costs, and also an increase in divorce rates. These days, even getting married is an expensive financial arrangement. Having kids is just another layer on that. Housing prices have increased because of c…

Since when you need to be married to have kids? Sounds like correlation, but likely not causation.

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#183
post #156
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha, but what if it doesn't pop and we see something like Japan's economy from the early 90's on? High prices that never come down, combined with wage stagnation? We're kind of already seeing it now.

You can then move to a flyover state in the mid-west, and buy a palace for the $100,000/year you were stashing away.

This is the future. Silicon valley rent problems are a network optimization problem best solved by pushing resources to the edge of the graph.

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#184
post #37

From previous: " In nations in the West, an important limiting factor is the ability to get one’s own apartment. That is, the ratio of average male wage to average rent. In the USA, the happiest year for this ratio was 1958, when people were spending 22% of their income on rent, on average. Not by coincidence, this was the peak year of the Baby Boom. In some sense, it was the best year in history to be a young white…

In pretty much every analysis involving housing costs, I try to mention that percentage of income spent on housing is not a great metric. A better metric is absolute income minus housing costs. All else being equal, I would gladly earn $1 million per year and spend 75% of it on rent, because that remaining 25% would be a heck of a lot of money. I doubt this metric would significantly change the conclusions of this ar…

If you live in an area where housing costs are high, most other cost is likely also higher (tax, food, daycare, school, etc.).

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is ridiculous. Wages have never been higher, and there have never been more people. There are incredibly strong network effects from having more people (in cities, etc), and the benefit of international trade relies on more people to enable better specialization. All kinds of incredibly important markets, like semiconductors (including computer chips, solar power) and even mining rely on having a lot of people t…

> Wages have never been higher Except that "in real terms the average wage peaked more than 40 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 has the same purchasing power as $22.41 would today." [ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-wor... ]

I've also used that link in the past, but in digging more into the data I think there may be some problems with those data - perhaps that they only consider hourly wages, and not compensation. These [1] data from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, and are just a cleaner representation of direct Bureau of Labor Statistics data. That is Nonfarm Business Sector: Real Compensation Per Hour. And you can see it has been consistently increasing - up about 50% since 1970.

Nonfarm business sector is defined as: The nonfarm business sector is a subset of the domestic economy and excludes the economic activities of the following: general government, private households, nonprofit organizations serving individuals, and farms. The nonfarm business sector accounted for about 77 percent of the value of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2000.

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Another important metric is that in the US there has been a sharp upward trend in wealth of society. I ran into this [2] when actually searching information on the chiseling out of the middle class. And that paper does describe that chiseling of the middle class. In 1979 the middle class controlled 46% of all income, and the upper/rich classes controlled 30%. Today (well at least today as of 2014) the rich and upper class control 63% with the middle class left with 26%. There's even been a chiseling out of the middle class as a whole declining from 38.8% of society to 32% of society.

But the eye opener is this. This is the change in the size of each economic group between 1979 and 2014 as a percent of the total population:

- Rich: 0.1% -> 1.8%

- Upper Middle Class: 12.9% -> 29.4%

- Middle Class: 38.8% -> 32%

- Lower Middle Class: 23.9% -> 17.1%

- Poor or Near-Poor: 24.3% -> 19.8%

These data are certainly not indicative of flat lining of real earnings. Statistics like this are certainly subject to biased interpretation and 'massaging'. If one is curious about the source, wiki has a section on the political stance of the Urban Institute [3]. Though the paper itself is very transparent in their methodology and extremely readable. I found it all eye opening to the point that it actually changed my worldview.

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I'm unsure what exactly what causes the biggest skewing of Pew's numbers. It could be that perhaps we have a greater relative ratio of workers that are excluded from their numbers (for e.g. occupying 'supervisory' roles), or it could be that compensation beyond wages itself has just become much more valuable. It's also possible that their numbers are reasonable but the labor force dynamics make them misleading. For instance imagine if a smaller chunk of society counts as part of the labor force or that the labor force participation rate declines. Still considering wages just within this segment of society would not really indicate the changes for society at large. In any case, and for whatever the reason, those those data are not really indicative of the economic direction of the nation.

[1] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB

[2] - https://www.urban.org/research/publication/growing-size-and-...

[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Institute#Political_stan...

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were smarter you'd have commuted in from the suburbs and banked the money for retirement.

Spending your day commuting and living in a car dependent hell hole is smarter, just because you can retire a bit sooner? What alternative universe has HN transformed into?

Depending on how early you retire it can be the smart choice.

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#187
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were smarter you'd have commuted in from the suburbs and banked the money for retirement.

That’s 2+ hours per day of your life that you’re never getting back. You can always make more money, but time lost is gone forever. How much is 2x5x52 = 520 hours worth to you? If you’re selling your time for even just $100/hour that’s $52,000/year right there. With a 300k salary your hour is worth way more than $100. For your family, it’s priceless.

300k a year post tax, 50 weeks a year, 50 hours a week, that's $120 an hour.

If it takes an extra hour a day and $500 a month that's $3000 to save a month in housing costs

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#188
post #37

From previous: " In nations in the West, an important limiting factor is the ability to get one’s own apartment. That is, the ratio of average male wage to average rent. In the USA, the happiest year for this ratio was 1958, when people were spending 22% of their income on rent, on average. Not by coincidence, this was the peak year of the Baby Boom. In some sense, it was the best year in history to be a young white…

In pretty much every analysis involving housing costs, I try to mention that percentage of income spent on housing is not a great metric. A better metric is absolute income minus housing costs. All else being equal, I would gladly earn $1 million per year and spend 75% of it on rent, because that remaining 25% would be a heck of a lot of money. I doubt this metric would significantly change the conclusions of this ar…

No you wouldn't be glad because most of that remaining $250K would go towards paying other people's rents... E.g. When you go to a restaurant, everything on the menu would cost more to cover their rent. The cost of rent factors into pretty much anything that money can buy.

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. Assuming the $1 million is post tax, it equates to $250,000 post tax and nearly entirely disposable income. Compared to, say, someone making $200,00 post tax and spending only 25% of that on rent it is strictly better. The point that the above commenter is making is that if the percentage of income spent on rent is higher, but the purchasing power adjusted income is higher it can cancel out. I'…

I think he's saying that as absolute incomes get higher, commuting cost as a percentage of income drops, because commuting cost is largely fixed regardless of income. And so it makes more sense to live in a low-COL region and commute to a high-COL region. For the average person, flying to work every day is unrealistic. If you are making $1M/year, it suddenly becomes very realistic. Same day roundtrips between SFO and…

Why would you commute for 6 hours for $200 when you could stay in a hotel during the week? What's the point in going "home" to sleep?

Re: Birth Rates Dropped Most in U.S. Counties Where Home Prices Grew Most

#190
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In pretty much every analysis involving housing costs, I try to mention that percentage of income spent on housing is not a great metric. A better metric is absolute income minus housing costs. All else being equal, I would gladly earn $1 million per year and spend 75% of it on rent, because that remaining 25% would be a heck of a lot of money. I doubt this metric would significantly change the conclusions of this ar…

It's the average. If the median wage was $1MM all goods would be way more expensive. But all this is wrong because rents rise to soak up income. If we all earned $1MM rents would be most of that if all other goods stayed the same.

This was shown. When household incomes increased as women working became the norm, households had more to spend on housing, which meant house prices ballooned. Much of the rest of the money was taken by things like childcare, gardening, cleaners, etc.

This had the end result that those who want to stay at home can't, society is now based arround two decent income salaries.

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