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Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

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Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#91

Post by byrneseyeview »

kyro wrote: post #25

It's funny, because even people like Zuckerberg eventually had to pull in experts with extensive educational backgrounds to help in developing the company. And if you look at any billion dollar company, those with degrees have played and continue to play a critical role in said company's growth and success. While I do agree that with a field like computer science, real world experience rather than educational backgro…

Yes, that's true. PhDs are, in the end, a commodity. People like Zuckerberg are not. You can commoditize yourself to the extent that you follow a traditional path (HS > College > Grad School > BigCo Coder > BigCo Manager > Retirement / Death).

At some point, you have to start deviating from that path if you want a better-than-expected outcome, unless you happen to be really good at following whatever path has been set for you by others. Zuck and Gates started early; many people never do.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#92

Post by byrneseyeview »

faramarz wrote: post #7

There still is a stigma for putting university on hold or dropping out. Trust me there is. All you guys (Arrington included) in the valley are in a bubble, which is fine, because it works there but the rest of society doesn't feel the same (good or bad). Anywhere else, your family, your friends, your colleagues, they will not take you seriously until you finish your degree. The stigma will only die when every single…

There is a stigma, but there are also tradeoffs. I dropped out after a year, so I have three more years of experience than most people my age. That experience includes managing projects, negotiating with CEOs, presenting stuff to boards of directors, etc. I kind of feel bad for people who stuck it out and graduated into the terrible 2009 job market (that's when I would have finished).

College is just not as good a deal as it used to be. More and more of the stuff you'd need to know is available for free; more of the people you need to know are one email away. For students who aren't attending elite schools, college is probably not a good deal (adjusted for inflation, the wage premium for college students peaked in 1985; it's been dropping in real terms since then, even though tuition is rising faster than inflation).

100 years ago, an ambitious young person might have had two choices: stay on the farm and be the best farmer he can be, or move to the big, strange city, and try to do something extraordinary. In the future, I suspect that most people will view higher ed as equivalent to staying on the farm. You can do it, sure, and it will probably lead to a safer future for you. But if you think you're really extraordinary, or you'd like to find out, you have to get out and do something.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#93

Post by byrneseyeview »

It's weird that Vivek Wadhwa's articles keep running on TechCrunch. All his controversial posts say is that the conventional wisdom outside of the valley is better than the conventional wisdom inside it. If you asked someone in, say, Iowa, they would say that dropping out of college to start a startup is a bad idea, that your CEO should be older and more experienced, that an MBA is a smart decision, etc.

If I wanted to hear that, I'd just ask my parents.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#94

Post by beza1e1 »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #91
kyro wrote: post #25

It's funny, because even people like Zuckerberg eventually had to pull in experts with extensive educational backgrounds to help in developing the company. And if you look at any billion dollar company, those with degrees have played and continue to play a critical role in said company's growth and success. While I do agree that with a field like computer science, real world experience rather than educational backgro…

Yes, that's true. PhDs are, in the end, a commodity. People like Zuckerberg are not. You can commoditize yourself to the extent that you follow a traditional path (HS > College > Grad School > BigCo Coder > BigCo Manager > Retirement / Death). At some point, you have to start deviating from that path if you want a better-than-expected outcome, unless you happen to be really good at following whatever path has been se…

Your better-than-expected is interesting. At the point BigCo Coder, your probably get above-average income already. Maybe we should learn a little modesty?

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#95

Post by Mc_Big_G »

jasonkester wrote: post #81

I graduated from high school in 1989, at the very apex of 80's butt-rock heavy metal. My school had probably 200 guys with ratted out long hair, most of whom owned a guitar and dreamed of being a rock star. Of that group, probably 50 played well enough to do a creditable "Eruption" solo, and there were half a dozen guys who could get on stage at an assembly and keep the entire school entertained for 10 minutes. Lots…

I was one of those guys and if I hadn't given it a shot, I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. I learned some hard lessons and then went to college and got a bachelor's in engineering.

Okay, so I put off financial security for a few years, but I have a lot of great memories and the satisfaction of knowing I had the balls to try. No regrets.

From the condescending tone of your post, it seems you think you're better than all those guys who pursued their dream. You're wrong and I salute each and every one of them. What fun is life if you don't take chances?

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#96

Post by ahoyhere »

dasil003 wrote: post #27
alain94040 wrote: post #5

It's really so much simpler... they are both right. While in college, start a startup! It's the optimal time of your life where taking such a risk is really no risk at all. If your idea takes-off, great, figure out what to do then . For everyone else, finish your degree and try again soon (you'll be that much more experienced).

I like your answer, though I was actually gonna say the opposite. They're both wrong! First of all this aim high stuff is nonsense. Facebook did not start with the goal of toppling MySpace. Microsoft did not start with the goal of running on 95% of machines. Twitter did not start with the thought of becoming a billion dollar company. These companies get their through consistent cycles of ambition and execution. There…

1000x YES on the "aim high stuff is nonsense." It's cargo-culting, pure and simple. Copying the way an accidental empire was built is as silly as building a straw plane in the hopes that the real plane will come back. Or buying Aeron chairs and a foosball table.

As Basho once wrote, "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought."

That said, can't agree with you on the statement that a lifestyle business is a business where the ambition has waned. Lots of people with "lifestyle" businesses are getting exactly what they wanted. Getting what you want is getting what you want, regardless of whether somebody on the outside deems your ambitions "good enough."

HNers seem to treat "lifestyle business" like a slur, while lionizing people with unlikely lifestyle businesses (hi patio11). I'd like to see that cognitive dissonance resolved.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#97

Post by lambda »

jasonkester wrote: post #81

I graduated from high school in 1989, at the very apex of 80's butt-rock heavy metal. My school had probably 200 guys with ratted out long hair, most of whom owned a guitar and dreamed of being a rock star. Of that group, probably 50 played well enough to do a creditable "Eruption" solo, and there were half a dozen guys who could get on stage at an assembly and keep the entire school entertained for 10 minutes. Lots…

There's a big difference between working on a startup and trying to be a rock star.

Even if you fail at a startup, you have learned a wide array of skills in the process. You have gotten hands-on experience with a variety of technologies. You have learned, through experience, some lessons on making products for a customer. You've learned something about business, and finance, and investing.

If you fail at being a rock star, well, you have some skills at playing the guitar, and can go on to being a mediocre guitar teacher or work in a wedding band. If you fail at a startup, everything you've learned can be applied towards more stable jobs in the tech industry.

Now, I wouldn't advocate dropping out of school necessarily. But taking a year or two off to try your hand at a startup, and then go back if it doesn't take off? That doesn't seem too unreasonable; there are people who decide to take a year or two off before college to make some money and get some working experience.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#99

Post by agentultra »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #95
jasonkester wrote: post #81

I graduated from high school in 1989, at the very apex of 80's butt-rock heavy metal. My school had probably 200 guys with ratted out long hair, most of whom owned a guitar and dreamed of being a rock star. Of that group, probably 50 played well enough to do a creditable "Eruption" solo, and there were half a dozen guys who could get on stage at an assembly and keep the entire school entertained for 10 minutes. Lots…

I was one of those guys and if I hadn't given it a shot, I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. I learned some hard lessons and then went to college and got a bachelor's in engineering. Okay, so I put off financial security for a few years, but I have a lot of great memories and the satisfaction of knowing I had the balls to try. No regrets. From the condescending tone of your post, it seems you think you…

Right on.

I dropped out of high-school to work at a web company programming in perl. I was ensconced with the idea of doing something I usually tinkered with at three in the morning while trying not to wake up my mother AND making a butt-load of cash doing it (at least for a teenager).

The crash came about a year later and I had to go back to finish school so I could get into college. That was a little embarrassing, but I got through it...

... and did it again. Fast-tracked a year of audio engineering and thought I could start up a label and produce records. Started my own business this time.

sigh

I wouldn't get back into programming for a few years, but I say it was worth it.

Now I love programming, but who knows? In a few years I might want to be building hot-rods or running an expat cafe in some foreign country.

You only get to live once.

UPDATE: edited for spelling/grammar/clarity

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#100

Post by samatman »

kyro wrote: post #25

It's funny, because even people like Zuckerberg eventually had to pull in experts with extensive educational backgrounds to help in developing the company. And if you look at any billion dollar company, those with degrees have played and continue to play a critical role in said company's growth and success. While I do agree that with a field like computer science, real world experience rather than educational backgro…

While this is true, and I respect your decision to go to medical school, consider this:

In Japan, which has the best life expectancy of any nation, doctors are trained for three years after high school. That's it.

I believe a case can be made that the entire pre-medical curriculum is a scam, one that wastes years of life from some of our most promising young people and rakes in billions of education expenses that drive up the cost of health care.

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