Live data from Hacker News

The sad truth about Facebook

newsweek.com

51–60 of 127 posts

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#51
Not only is the author a troll -- as pointed out, he runs the Fake Steve Jobs blog -- his primary source, Nathan Myhyrvhvhlodold, is a troll.

Let me clarify:

Nathan might be a genius, but he's a genius whose words we can't ever risk taking seriously because of the raging conflicts of interest that imbue his every interaction with the press or social media.

His company:

> "Intellectual Ventures is a private company claiming to invest in "pure invention." Their business model has a focus on developing a large patent portfolio and licensing these to companies with infringing products."

Myhrvold brings smart scientists and thinkers into a room, picks their brains, and then he and his own very smart people sit down and come up with as many patents as they can.

They aren't driven by malice. They're driven by rational self-interest: presently, with our broken patent system, people who aren't actually going to go out there and try to solve the world's problems can sit in a room all day coming up with ideas and make money from that.

Let's run his statements through a conflict-of-interest filter: "Silicon Valley is working on easy problems" translates to:

> Hey world, it's only cool to work on things that require large up-front investment on PATENT-FRIENDLY products, so people with lots of patents can make money by attaching ourselves to the necks of people who are actually making the world a better place instead of talking about it.

Tempting, Nate.

More to the point, it's tempting to get sucked into rebutting individual points, such as the fact that those heroes of the valley would have killed to have the resources available now to anyone with a credit card, Linode and Twilio.com. Or the fact that he's essentially complaining about low barriers to entry.

Or the fact that things that start easy and trivial, in the early stages, quickly get deep and techy. It's easy to mock things that look facebook-y, but it's hard to solve, say, 10k or 100k continuous connections, or to write fast evented code or contribute to libraries that make the whole world faster. We start simple and get smart.

But if you start rebutting these things, you've been sucked into a hole.

The issue is, he wants people to work on patent-friendly stuff. Fin.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#52
post #19
post #5

Talk. About. A. Troll. (edit: ah, no wonder. the author is fake steve jobs blogger) This is almost as good as the article from the 90s making fun of the Internet and how useless it is. ...a place where smart kids arrive hoping to make an easy fortune building companies that seem, if not pointless, at least not as serious as, say, old-guard companies like HP, Intel, Cisco, and Apple. "Easy fortune" huh? That's what yo…

Don't shoot the messenger. His message: Before our arrogant, materialistic society hits the next iceberg or 'crash', it would be wise to create technology for the long-term survival of humanity and habitability of Earth. What problems are more important to solve? "The risk is that by focusing an entire generation of bright young entrepreneurs on such silly things, we’ll fall behind in creating the fundamental buildin…

Indeed. He's going on about how modern silicon valley, and to be honest much of the rest of the world, is geared around the short term. How start-ups are now light and fluffy, with a focus on making the world worse - by getting their users addicted, in their millions, to menial activities.

I have been thinking about this recently, should the start-ups - which rely heavily on user addiction - be treated as gambling outlets, and therefore be regulated and watched closely? It would at least discourage that form of start-up.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#53
Geeze, does this guy understand the word prosperity?

We should be happy that "the computer problem" is solved (at least for now). Computer technology has plateaued and there is no hard engineering required right now. This is a good thing! It gives us time to experiment with software. So Silicon has gone the way of Northeast Steel. So what if the world changes?

If you want to do hard engineering, you go to the fields that require it - war inc. (looking for more efficient ways to kill our neighbors), space flight (the modern space race is exciting), industrial automation (eventually the populace of Asia will want to climb out of indentured servitude and we need to replace them with something). These fields still need smart engineers and big $ startups.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#54

Complete poppycock. Running Hackers and Founders SV, I think I have a pretty decent picture of what Silicon Valley is like on the ground floor, and as far as I'm concerned it's pretty frigging amazing. There's tons of small teams doing amazing things with Big Data and real time analytics like Factual (making Open Data easier to manage and use), MixPanel (Real Time analytics for applications). There's a number of comp…

"Sure Zynga makes somewhat whimsical addictive games, but if you stop and crunch the numbers, Farmville's digital economy is probably mlarger than the real world economies of many developing nations."

Which is probably what the author of this article would consider to be part of the problem.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#55
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, but this reminds me of salary comparisons. Why shoud person X make Y when person Z makes Q. There's a delicious unfairness in capitalism that forces people to overcome coveting. God made life seemingly unfair just to fuck with self-righteous people, because they need to overcome it.

Matthew Chapter 20 1 1 "The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 Going out about nine o'clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 2 and he said to them, 'You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.' 5 So they went off. (And) he went out again around noon, and around three o'clock, and did likewise. 6 Going out about five o'clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, 'Why do you stand here idle all day?' 7 They answered, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You too go into my vineyard.' 8 3 When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.' 9 When those who had started about five o'clock came, each received the usual daily wage. 10 So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner, 12 saying, 'These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day's burden and the heat.' 13 He said to one of them in reply, 'My friend, I am not cheating you. 4 Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? 14 5 Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you? 15 (Or) am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?' 16 6 Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last."

God likes to fuck with people's sense of fairness. I laugh at those who complain.

God says... acquainted discoursed external god shady Edition consolations recorded examined bleeding ensues deafen searches permitted seventh deem seduce honouring minister resistedst innocency pliant recognised judge enjoin Itself knotty approved imparts grantest littles earnest shadows authority rend whichsoever consecrating incumbrances

Or how about the prodigal son:

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke15.htm

God basically says, "STFU Because I'm God and you're not."

Some people are still unclear on the concept of God.

God says... C:\TEXT\BIBLE.TXT

not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the LORD shall forgive her.

30:13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void.

30:14 But if her husband altogether hold his peace at her from day to day; then he establisheth all her vows, or all her bonds, which are upon her: he confirmeth them, because he held his peace at her in the day that he heard them.

30:15 But if he shall any ways make them void after that he hath

You attack me, you're declaring yourself an enemy, no matter who you are and I will get all my friends to fuck with you. Legions of angels and shit who can puppet any person on Earth.

Yeah, I got one of them ghetto cell phones all crazy homeless people have.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#56
This article is full of it, but for more reasons than have been articulated so far.

One problem is that the article mistakes light for heat. Just because they get less press than Facebook doesn't mean that old-school high-tech engineering startups don't exist. Facebook et al are focused like a laser on getting their names out. That is what social networking is: word-of-mouth viral publicity. Whereas most hardware startups are born below the radar, and the majority die below the radar, and many of the successful ones get bought out by bigger companies and never rise above the radar under their own name. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. Some statistics would have been nice.

The balance of companies has shifted a lot over time, but that's because computing has grown and matured. Back in the 1970s Silicon Valley's only customers were nerds. That meant a lot of emphasis on nerdly products. H-P calculators. Oscilloscopes. Chipsets. After thirty years of work on mobile phones, broadband networking, and UX design, we've improved computing to the point where there are now many Valley firms whose customers are non-nerdly iPhone owners and Web users. That's a huge number of people. And it turns out that you can make as much gross revenue by selling a $2.99 app directly to 2 billion people as you can by selling a $2.99 part to a firm that will make 2 billion mobile phones, but the former requires much more marketing and makes a lot more noise.

But the big problem with this article is that it is trying to blame a forest-management problem on the individual leaves. If the USA is not investing enough resources in "alternative energy, better batteries, and nanotechnology", don't blame Silicon Valley startup culture. That's putting the cart before the horse. Entrepreneurs go where the money is, and who controls how much money goes into cutting-edge hardware research? The government, mostly. Either directly (by giving out research grants) or indirectly (by providing an artificial "market" with a single customer -- often the Department of Defense, but sometimes an entity like NASA -- that happily commits to spending money on the very latest high-tech toys; or by creating and enforcing the incentives that drive the market for, e.g., alternative energy).

The Internet got developed because the government commissioned it. Rocket technology got developed because the government commissioned and bought it. H-P and Intel became big companies by selling equipment and parts to the high-tech companies that sold to the government. The nanotech researchers I know are paid by the Department of Defense, the National Institutes of Health, or the National Science Foundation. Biotech research? Funded by the NIH or the DoD. Alternative energy? The size of our research efforts have tended to wax and wane with the size of the DoE budget; the economics of deploying alternative energy have everything to do with the cost of oil and gas (determined by forces outside of an entrepreneur's control, like taxes, and tax-funded highway projects, and tax-funded transportation projects, and zoning policy, and tax-funded military maneuvers, and government-mediated international agreements) and the extent of environmental regulation (determined by government and politics).

If you want to address these problems you must first analyze them correctly. If you're a rag like Newsweek it's easy and fun to pick on Mark Zuckerberg, but the real problem is economic and research policy: We've got an economy with flat or declining demand and lots of excess capacity (I, for one, could certainly be talked into applying my Ph.D. in EE to alternative energy problems instead of to PHP applications... if the price was right) yet our government officials are perversely engaged in an effort to further depress demand and raise our excess capacity by cutting spending. I wonder if there are any magazines that are ostensibly devoted to discussing problems in society, government and policy, instead of trading in mindless gossip, cheap shots, and PR hit pieces?

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#57

I think Twitter has immense value. And I would be happy to see it go public and achieve $billions in market cap. Cant say the same thing about facebook or zynga. sometimes i feel like facebook is that waste-of-my-time show that i get pulled into when i switch on my tv. it sucks up time from my life i will never get back.

Twitter has a strong impact on our culture, but without a rational business model, and several quarters of profitable growth, an IPO will never happen. I certainly wouldn't buy stock in a company which doesn't know how to make money, no matter how impactful their product is.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#58
Two things. One positive and one negative.

Positive. The author understands the gist of what's going on. Places like YC focus on Minimum Viable Product and doing just one thing that people want. These are great and wise strategies for both investors and entrepreneurs, but there's also another term for it that's not as flattering: bottom-feeding. Going after the little bits of value here and there, not being a hunter, existing by providing the least amount of value possible. There are huge bottom-feeders! Facebook is one of them. But it's little tidbit work. Stuff like reminding me when I like to scratch my nose, or a service for recommending dog groomers.

Negative. The problem here is that the author seems to think he knows where technology is headed, and that's always a foolish bet. His view is that we should be making complex things and solving hard problems. While I agree that hard problems need to be solved, I don't think you can decide ahead of time which problems are going to be the ones that gain traction. This is like the government or VCs "deciding" that one area of effort is going to give more results than another. Nobody knows. This is the risk of startups. It's why the smart move is to do the little stuff.

More to the point, there are two kinds of innovation (to steal from Kuhn). There is "normal" innovation, where people take existing tech and put it together in new ways to make trivially more usable things than existed before. Then there is paradigm-changing innovation, where completely new things appear.

By far, normal innovation is the norm. Probably 99.9% of all innovation is normal. Maybe more. Systems change from the ground-up, not from the top-down. Eventually a bunch of little things reach critical mass and a paradigm-changing innovation occurs. But hell, most of the time you can't force the little innovations to work, much less the big ones. I love the contrarian tone, but it's just not a realistic article.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#59

This article is full of it, but for more reasons than have been articulated so far. One problem is that the article mistakes light for heat. Just because they get less press than Facebook doesn't mean that old-school high-tech engineering startups don't exist. Facebook et al are focused like a laser on getting their names out. That is what social networking is : word-of-mouth viral publicity. Whereas most hardware st…

I'd agree with you on most of this except the oil part; the reason the government doesn't invest in alternative energy is because reliance on oil is necessary to make the petro-dollar framework work - if alternative energy existed, nobody would buy dollar-based oil units from the middle east, and therefore nobody would need to negotiate from a position of weakness with the U.S. in business transactions because their nations needed dollars to buy oil. No need for oil = no need for dollars = dollars backed by nada = America's primary industry (dollar production) = instantly useless = we're suddenly very, very poor and weak. In other words, your frustrations are valid but it's done on purpose until the people who tell the government what to do and how to do it can figure out "the next big thing" in keeping the world under control via financial frameworks. Right now it's still the petro-dollar, so alternative energy will at best be unsupported, if not suppressed via regulation, buyouts, patent-blocks, etc.

As for the magazine bit, have you tried the economist? It really is a misnomer ... it has more to do with the issues you want to focus on.

Re: The sad truth about Facebook

#60

Two things. One positive and one negative. Positive. The author understands the gist of what's going on. Places like YC focus on Minimum Viable Product and doing just one thing that people want. These are great and wise strategies for both investors and entrepreneurs, but there's also another term for it that's not as flattering: bottom-feeding. Going after the little bits of value here and there, not being a hunter,…

Regardless of whether its wise to bet on where technology is heading, the point I got from this was that more thought should be going in to what technologies should be focused on as a matter of principle, regardless of "what sells to the masses at the moment."

We've seen where demand (Wall Street) driven acute focus on the short term has brought many companies today, ie, over-reliance on what was once popular but quickly hit the dust the second something slightly more trendy came along.

Of course, making so many rapid platform adjustments drives people into borrowing ... from Wall Street. But companies were told over and over by a barage of management consulting gurus that things were so fast and blurry, they couldn't afford to not keep borrowing more and more money to pump out more and more crap to keep up with the almost instantly changing trends.

On the other hand, look at apple - just over a decade ago they were considering bankruptcy, and instead of giving in to the urge to "do what would sell at the moment" they decided to ignore "expert advice" and instead invest in a simple but well-thought out development plan (iPad seems new but is really just a long-held fantasy of Newton II) and chart their own long-term course of doing what they wanted at a time when it wasn't certain there was going to be a long term for them.

Now of course everybody praises them for their determination to do what they wanted rather than catering to the fickle whims of the market.

Now look where they are. They define the market. They don't make what you want - they tell you what you want and make sure you get the hint that they know what you want even better than you do. And more and more people seem to agree.

I think that's what this article highlights - what will the world be like 5 years from now (more of the same) if facebook keeps getting more and more money to hire more talented people so they can figure out clever new ways to help people keep each other up to date on useless banalities that do nothing to advance anything other than their intimate familiarity with useless and ephemeral trivia about their sometimes friends but mostly loose associates.

The world is facing more and more problems ... exponential inter-relationships between these problems will at some point overwhelm us ... and smart people are figuring out how to steal money from grandparents on wall street or how to better allow you to tell everyone you ever bumped into in life that you got a new refridgerator.

Path dependency is very real and we may come to a point where we can't solve the important problems anymore even if we want to or need to.

Post reply on HN