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Habits of Highly Miserable People

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Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#211

Post by rectang »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #196
rectang wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving on is crucial. However, what I find troubling about that formulation that it appears to deny the victim's experience. Can't we pause, acknowledge the negative, and then move on?

The issue is that if you get hit by a car, the entire world doesn't spend the rest of your life pitying you and hanging their car-related baggage on you and refusing to acknowledge they are doing so. If you get raped, every bit of sexual baggage of everyone you know will be dumped in your lap in the name of "sympathy" while people actively refuse to allow you to move on. I'm a let me brag and show off by showing you…

> one helluva badass

Well it's cheap to say now, but I have thought that. :) Not necessarily about this topic though.

I have a friend, who has lived well, but who long ago was raped by her father... and then when she spoke out in her church community, was accused of lying and shunned as everyone rallied around her father, "a good man".

It seems to me there's a middle ground, which is never struck precisely but often close enough, between the extremes of gaslighting and victim-mongering. And exactly where that middle ground lies changes over time.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#212

Post by _2d30 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #123
foxhill wrote: post #71

having been, for want of a better term, ‘highly miserable’ in the past, the entirety of this article comes across as insidiously toxic and detrimental to the mental well-being of those who are suffering. there is a.. loosely similar CGP Grey video, which approaches the matter in a much more rational context [1] for anyone suffering, i emplore you to not read this and watch this instead; [1] - https://youtube.com/watc…

Amen. I didn't watch your linked video, but I definitely agreed with your post. As someone who has also been highly miserable (aka clinically depressed) in the past, various sentiments along the line of "come on, life is great, why can't you appreciate it?" and "that's no so bad, suck it up" most definitely did NOT help me overcome my depression. Which makes me wonder: if the purpose of this post is to belittle "mise…

Having been both clinically depressed and just generally negative and miserable, I think there's a large difference. This article addresses the latter of those two situations in a way that resonated pretty deeply with me. Clinical depression is drastically different and should be treated more as a disease than a state of mind. I don't believe this article comes across as suggesting its conclusions can treat clinical depression but rather are the symptoms of highly negative and miserable states of mind.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#213

Post by esolyt »

geowwy wrote: post #207
esolyt wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically during the entire post. "misery is an art form, and the satisfaction people seem to find in it reflects the creative effort required to cultivate it." "making yourself miserable is a craft all its own, requiring imagination, vision, and ingenuity." "There’s power in making other people feel guilty."

How is that about mental illness? I genuinely don't get it. People can be unhappy without being mentally ill.

> People can be unhappy without being mentally ill.

Sure. But some people feel unhappy all the time. Sometimes for years, sometimes for their entire life. In their case, it is a mental health issue. It's not something they can just shake off when they hear the age-old "you're depressed because you choose to be" argument by a smug author. This approach is outdated and it doesn't work.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#214

Post by mirimir »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #205
mirimir wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, you are "one helluva badass" :) > Each of us is the sum of our scars. Caine, in Stover's Blade of Tyshalle . Also, the horse witch in his Act of Atonement books.

I'm totally tweeting this.

Stover did write the Star Wars prequels, but I don't hold it against him (too much). Abercrombie, Morgan and Scalzi all like his stuff. Caine is pretty much straight Crowley.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#215

Post by lopmotr »

taurath wrote: post #167
RIMR wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is a bit of a controversial opinion, but I always felt that society's reaction to sexual assault give victims a reason to feel even worse about their situation. Not to say that it isn't a severely traumatic thing to experience - it absolutely is. But, we regularly treat virginity as some sort of virtuous status - and then speak of rape victims who lost their virginity to their attacker as if they were str…

There’s a line that gets crossed between “oh well that sucks but that’s life” and legitimate traumatic experiences. When that line is crossed your suffering goes from whining to legitimate in the eyes of society, so a lot of people realize this and maximize their victimhood in order to gain any sympathy.

Yes, there's a weird way that when we label people, it changes the legitimacy of their condition. It's broader than just how acceptable it is to complain. Other examples are depression and autism. If you're diagnosed with one of those, it transforms you from an unpleasant person that nobody wants to be friends with to someone deserving pity, support and/or respect.

I think there's some kind of value in this. Everyone's got a bit of psychological disorder and for normal people, they can use willpower to bring themselves into a good state. We ridicule those who fail to do that as a kind of motivation to sort themselves out. But with an actual disease that has a name or a distinct experience like rape, we think they're beyond being able to help themselves and no amount of insults is going to be any use in making them feel better.

This attitude also seems to be behind the competing ideas of alcoholism being either a disease or a behavior. If it's a behavior, you can blame the alcoholic for failing to sort themselves out, but if it's a disease, maybe they're truly helpless.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#216

Post by tlynchpin »

deviationblue wrote: post #130

This article exists with the value judgement that being not miserable is some kind of boon or "positive" or "good thing". Anything that starts with that kind of implied value judgement w/o anything substantive can be disregarded. Edit to add: Seriously though, a healthy amount of cynicism is required for critical thinking. If you try too hard to be something, whether that's happy or positive or whatever, you're depri…

".. a healthy amount of skepticism is required .."

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#217

Post by [deleted] »

solarkraft wrote: post #46
fwip wrote: post #35

Number 3, "Give yourself a negative identity," just sounds like "I don't like when people have mental health problems. Get over it already."

Not fully. The point (I think) is not letting oneself be consumed by a problem & constantly identifying to be about it. There are way more things to define you.

[deleted]

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#218

Post by RickS »

Felz wrote: post #195
RickS wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I agree with most of your argument. In persons for whom these traits arise from mental illness, this particular brand of sarcastic blaming of the holder of emotions is likely counterproductive. With that said, if the overwhelming majority of readers were miserable not via irreparable mental illness, but from well-worn thought processes, and were capable of growth stemming from realizations about their behavior…

This is a bravery debate, in other words. http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/06/09/all-debates-are-bravery... There are probably people who really need to hear "your problems are real and you should get help" and also those who need to hear "your problems are mainly self inflicted and you need to deal". This article gives the same advice for both types, and that's pretty dangerous.

That was a hugely useful read, thank you! It fits perfectly.

A former coworker of mine recently recommended The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck. She said she read it in my voice. I couldn't stand it, and I couldn't figure out the source of the dissonance. She needed the thing I do. I need the thing she does (give more fucks). We can't read and grow from the same books.

Really useful mental model here. I'd be interested in anything else you'd suggest as a good read.

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#219

Post by [deleted] »

gowld wrote: post #170
havemylife wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What disgusts you about its tone? I found it informative and probably from honest experience. It's superficial chearful embrace towards problems people create for themselves is instructive towards correcting those habits.

Sarcasm is simply obnoxious.

[deleted]

Re: Habits of Highly Miserable People

#220

Post by [deleted] »

gowld wrote: post #170
havemylife wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What disgusts you about its tone? I found it informative and probably from honest experience. It's superficial chearful embrace towards problems people create for themselves is instructive towards correcting those habits.

Sarcasm is simply obnoxious.

[deleted]
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