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USB Type-C is still a mess

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Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#191

Post by Laforet »

A few years back I thought USB-C was a better mechanical design than Apple's lightning port. You see, the spring loaded parts were built into the male conductors on the cable while lightning had them on the female connectors of the actual device; judging from the number of broken USB and DC charging ports I have witnessed it seemed prudent that moving parts should be placed in the side that is more easily replaced.

Well, I got what I asked for. I bought my first smartphone with USB-C connection by the end of 2106 and I'm on the 5th charging cable at the moment. The cable that came with the phone failed 6 month in and the $20 replacements (reputable brand with full fast charging capability while it worked) barely lasted any longer. I am hesitant to buy anything more expensive as they'd have a limited lifespan too.

Meanwhile all my lighning cables and devices bought in 2014 are going strong. I did have to retire a couple of cables because the ends had started to fray but even those never really ceased to charge.

My impression of USB-C so far gives me the vibes of early SATA ports rated to last 50 insertions. A lot of work is needed to make it on par with USB-B connectors in terms of physical reliability.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#192

Post by hinkley »

gsnedders wrote: post #144
odiroot wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm your suspicions. My Xperia X Compact is barely holding any USB-C cable now (after just 1.5 years of usage). And I went through 5 or 6 USB mini to USB-C adapters from Anker in the meantime. At the same time my nearly 4 year old Samsung Galaxy is holding strong without any wiggle room on the USB port.

My experience with USB-C female sockets is mostly that, especially on phones where they're frequently in clothing, end up full of lint, and that's what causes the cable to go in. Be careful, stick something sharp in (avoiding the middle pins!), and get the lint out, and it'll be fine.

Same thing happens with iPhones and iPads, but the socket shape means you can clear it out with a toothpick or compressed air.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#193

Post by kalleboo »

bluedino wrote: post #41

I finally broke down and bought a generic USB-C charger (Insignia from Best Buy) to keep in the shop, because enough USB-C laptops come through and nobody ever brings a charger. But just because a laptop has USB-C ports doesn't mean you can charge using it, here's looking at you, Lenovo P51. This machine is a workstation and requires 130W, USB-C can only supply 100W so it won't charge at all over USB-C. Blah. Also ha…

> Also had no luck even trickle-charging smaller USB-C machines like the HP x360 using a phone charger.

That sucks, one of my favorite features of the new MacBook Pros is extending the battery life using a portable USB battery intended for phones

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#194

Post by kalleboo »

magduf wrote: post #175
wvenable wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the explanation for every other phone company removing the ports? No phone manufacturer benefited financially from the purchase of my Bluetooth headphones.

I have no way to prove this, but the standard explanation is that other companies are stupid and just want to ape Apple, thinking they'll somehow capture Apple's loyal customers. Cargo-cult mentality. Of course, there's also the fact that extra ports take up more space, and it's easier to just eliminate features that not enough customers care about. But enough people seem to be complaining that it looks like it reall…

The latest trend of adding iPhone X-style display notches, even by companies that mocked that design when it came out, supports the "cargo cult" theory.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#195

Post by civilitty »

chx wrote: post #178
mmagin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this because of patents, or is this because nobody wants to do the R&D?

The latter. The entire area of vaguely PC peripheral chips died in 2014 when MegaChips took over ST's DP chips. Consider how much a 10 GbE card still costs -- this is the same speed! Apparently, it's not cheap making chips working with 10-20-40 gigabit/s line speeds but the market demands low cost. USB C wouldn't get far if a plain USB C to DP adapter would cost a hundred bucks.

> Consider how much a 10 GbE card still costs -- this is the same speed! Apparently, it's not cheap making chips working with 10-20-40 gigabit/s line speeds but the market demands low cost. USB C wouldn't get far if a plain USB C to DP adapter would cost a hundred bucks.

You can thank the laws of physics for that because at 10+ gbit data rates you start needing crazy internal clock speeds (which can be significantly higher than the input clocks). Since the distance a signal can travel before it loses too much energy to register logic HIGH is proportional to the wavelength, you have to pack everything close enough while still doing what your specs call for. In the case of 10GigE and USB Type C, this means having to move to smaller fabrication processes than most companies are prepared for or even have access to.

Most protocols designed to be that fast are either massively parallelized to avoid this problem like PCIe/DDR2+ or very expensive to implement as peripherals/silicon like MIPI3/10GigE/USB Type C.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#196

Post by aembleton »

jaypeg25 wrote: post #190
yathern wrote: post #122

I always hear how USB-C is such a mess, and everyone agrees - I just wanted to quickly provide a counter anecdote. As a user, who knows nothing about the protocol or the politics or anything else - USB-C works wonderfully for me - I only wish more devices used it. My laptop plugs into my monitor, provides more USB ports there, and audio out, which feeds into speakers. My dinky phone charger can charge my laptop, whic…

What laptop do you have? I'm in the market for a new one and thinking I'd really love to get one that's got usb-c charging

I have the Xiaomi Air 12 laptop [1]. It's charged from USB-C, which allows me to take one charger for my laptop, phone and headphones.

It will not charge from a phone charger though, as it is not powerful enough. I have to use the one that came with it or a similar powerful enough one. I tried the ones in the Apple store and they power this laptop just fine.

1. https://www.gearbest.com/laptops/pp_416105.html?wid=1349303

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#197

Post by yellowapple »

sebazzz wrote: post #15
MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

In my experience the connector from Apple is far more reliable than USB C. USB C is a rounded flat rectangle with a piece of plastic in the center and pins between, which is small and can easily be damaged. Lightning on the other hand is a solid metal connector with the pins/contacts on the outside, which is much more sturdier. Lighting also does a nice "click" when connected.

"Lighting also does a nice "click" when connected."

So does USB-C, at least on every device with which I've used it. That stops being the case if the port gets clogged up with dust (which is unfortunately as common and annoying as it is for USB-micro-B), but until then the click is quite satisfying.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#198

Post by Latty »

yathern wrote: post #122

I always hear how USB-C is such a mess, and everyone agrees - I just wanted to quickly provide a counter anecdote. As a user, who knows nothing about the protocol or the politics or anything else - USB-C works wonderfully for me - I only wish more devices used it. My laptop plugs into my monitor, provides more USB ports there, and audio out, which feeds into speakers. My dinky phone charger can charge my laptop, whic…

Seriously, this.

I love reversible connectors.

I love being able to use my phone as host or as client (charge a friend's phone from mine? No problem).

Right now though, there are zero cases on the market with USB-C ports on the front, zero USB-C hubs that have all USB-C ports for downstream (I think there is one with two C, two A).

Right now, I have my phone, my battery pack, and my yubikey on USB-C, and if I could find a hub I'd buy a ton of adaptors and switch everything to it. It's so convenient.

It's this chicken and egg thing where even as an early adopter you just can't get it. I have the same problem with DisplayPort 1.4 - you literally can't get devices for it. I have a multi-monitor setup with 4K displays and would love a DisplayPort hub (or better yet, switch), that supported DP1.4 so I could hook them all up down one line (not enough bandwidth on pre-1.4 stuff).

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#199

Post by pas »

wvenable wrote: post #167
magduf wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not supposed to charge and listen to wired audio without an adapter. You're supposed to use bluetooth headphones called "AirPods", which cost far, far more than regular wired headphones. If you don't like this and resent being pushed to buy very expensive accessories and dongles, then maybe Apple isn't the company for you.

What's the explanation for every other phone company removing the ports? No phone manufacturer benefited financially from the purchase of my Bluetooth headphones.

OnePlus 6, still has 3.5 mm jack, and has USB-C.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#200

Post by pas »

paulmd wrote: post #119
imran3740 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, USB-C seems to be the direction we're going anyways, plus it offers a lot more flexibility for audio eg. allows for active components like a higher-end DAC or amp on the headphones. Most people probably wouldn't really care for this, and the ones who do probably have portable media players already, so I would prefer to keep the headphone jack. The reality is, though, that USB-C appears to be the future.

You don't need type-C for running an external DAC/amp. Most smartphones support USB-OTG over micro-B and many DAC units use generic audio drivers. Of course you'd still need two ports if you wanted to charge at the same time. It would probably be more interesting to see smartphones that could use the headphone output as a digital signal, like a coaxial output. We want the 3.5mm output anyway, so why not just let it d…

Can one port source data (digital audio) and sink power at the same time to a splitter?
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